[USA] SJEDINJENE AMERIČKE DRŽAVE - unutrašnja politika i uticaj na svetska kretanja

[Helena]

8 hours ago, Babaduka said:

Gledao sam neke debate gde decko kaze ja sam gej mogu li biti tradicionalista i ako sam gej

On kaze moze

Ili pricanje oko oruzja gde on drzi svoj stav ali odaje priznanje coveku za njegove stavove

ili npr da u americi ne postoji sada race supermacy i da je crna zajednica ta koja koci sebe

Ili da dosta fakulteta je skem u smislu sto se previse zaduzis ne dobijas mogucnosti kritickog misljenja

Ili protiv je abortusa ali dao bi izuzetke silovanje bolest itd itd, ja se ne slazem sa tim ali razumem stanoviste kada pocinje zivot

On je za smrtnu kaznu jer ubica zasluzuje isto sto i ubijeni dok se zna da smrtna kazna ne doprinosi smanjenju izvrsenja dela itd itd

Da i kada su sagovornici pristojni on je vrlo pristojan pa u stvari pristojan je i kad devojke u pink kosama i muskarci u haljinama i teskim sminkama vicu 

Sad oko religije nisam video ni pogledao snimke a necu preko sortsa da donosim zakljucke

I da ako je normalna kumunikacija zeleo je da bar nadju neku zajednicku tacku

Kazem ne slazem se sa mnogim stavovima ali sam posvetio malo paznje i ne nedeluje mi kao ekstremista

Ti si već doneo zaključak, sa ili bez sortsa, kao što sam donela i ja, pa neće faliti ni oko religije koja je bila centar njegovog blebetanja.

 

Kad neko želi da se smrtna kazna prenosi preko TV - i izrazi želju da to i deca gledaju (pa onda u nekom podkastu raspravljaju o uzrastu koji bi to trebalo da gleda!?!!!?) ne može biti umeren.

 

Ko podržava tranpa ne može biti umeren, zapravo, ne podržava, aktivno učestvuje u kampanji, ne može biti umeren.

 

Ima dalje još, naročito deo oko abortusa, verujem da se na forumu to pominjali, ali i tome neki drugi put.

 

Što se pak tiče pristojnosti, stvari mogu da se postava i ovako - ako je ON pristojan i sagovornici su pristojni, niko nije centar univerzuma, osim tranpa, naravno, koji pokazuje sav mogući prostakluk gostujući u UK.

[Helena]

 

Uspeh je relativna stvar 

 

[𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂]

34 minutes ago, Helena said:

Ti si već doneo zaključak, sa ili bez sortsa, kao što sam donela i ja, pa neće faliti ni oko religije koja je bila centar njegovog blebetanja.

 

Kad neko želi da se smrtna kazna prenosi preko TV - i izrazi želju da to i deca gledaju (pa onda u nekom podkastu raspravljaju o uzrastu koji bi to trebalo da gleda!?!!!?) ne može biti umeren.

 

Ko podržava tranpa ne može biti umeren, zapravo, ne podržava, aktivno učestvuje u kampanji, ne može biti umeren.

 

Ima dalje još, naročito deo oko abortusa, verujem da se na forumu to pominjali, ali i tome neki drugi put.

 

Što se pak tiče pristojnosti, stvari mogu da se postava i ovako - ako je ON pristojan i sagovornici su pristojni, niko nije centar univerzuma, osim tranpa, naravno, koji pokazuje sav mogući prostakluk gostujući u UK.

 

Upravo sam da zavrsim sa gledanjem (doduse vise sam slusala) debata u Kembridzu. Pocela sam tako sto mi je iskocila ona devojka koja je debatovala i pricala o toj debati, pa sam se zainteresovala. Naisla sam naravno i na neke druge podkaste koji deo po deo objasnjavaju zasto ga je razvalila i koliko je suplje to sto zastupa, tj. to sto govori... a evo i cele debate. 

 

Ovi u Kembridzu su ga razvalili. On prica o medicini, ekonomiji, porodici, edukaciji... sve cega se dotakao i sve na kraju moze da se svede u receniu 'religija kaze sta je moralno' i tacka, a religija i biblija je ono kako on to tumaci. Znanje 0, demagogija 100 sa sve upakovanim frazetinama koje bi trebalo da ga obeleze kao intelektualca. Totalno suplja prica na koju su milioni naseli jer nisu u stanju da procesuiraju nista sto cuju i vide bez da im neko to sazvace. 

 

Naravno, on je na svom podkastu nazvao klip sa devojkom "Charlie Kirk SHUTS DOWN Feminist Talking Points 🔥 | Debate Compilation" i to sve ciljano, jer njegovim sledbenicima je dovoljno da vide naslov i da to pretvore u neku 'borbu' protiv feminista, liberala... a ustvari od izrecenog nisu nista (NISTA!) razumeli. 

[ters]

1 hour ago, Helena said:

Ko podržava tranpa ne može biti umeren, zapravo, ne podržava, aktivno učestvuje u kampanji, ne može biti umeren.

 

Da, oni koji podrzavaju Trampa radi porodicnih vrijednosti koje on promovise su umjereni... 

[Angelia]

 

9 hours ago, Babaduka said:

I da ako je normalna kumunikacija zeleo je da bar nadju neku zajednicku tacku

Kazem ne slazem se sa mnogim stavovima ali sam posvetio malo paznje i ne nedeluje mi kao ekstremista

I ne mora niko da se slaze sa njegovim stavovima, zato je I vodio debate, bio je prvi na Newsomovom podcastu, jer "dialog treba da postoji". Ni ja se ne slazem recimo sa njegovim stavovima o abortusu, ali smatram da ima pravo da zagovara svoju poziciju. Niko ne zasluzuje da bude ubijen zbog svog misljenja, a definitivno je odvratno radovati se politickom ubistvu zbog necijeg misljenja.

5 hours ago, 𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂 said:

 

Jos bolja je analogija, kad ovens i taker moraju da pricaju protiv onog sto se radi u njihovim krugovima dokle je doslo

Jednako cenim njihovo misljenje, sa leve I sa desne strane, ali vidim da si spremna da im se divis kad govore nesto sto ti godi... Ovens je jos I imala neke razumne stavove, do celog debakla sa Kanyom ... gde je popila cool aid. Tacker radi sve za klikove, ali eto, tebi je to sad razumno 😀

 

5 hours ago, 𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂 said:

 

Ali nista ti ne brini, sad kad eliminisu sve zive, bices jos uspesnija, moci ces da natrljavas na nos masi u srbiji svoje 'bogatstvo' i 'uspeh' jedino sto neces videti da si duboko u mulju onog sto je ostalo, a ne na toj toliko zeljnoj povrsíni. 

😂 Ti Baby kontas da me uopste ne znas, i da samo projektujes "natrljavanje" nekome uspeha? Nemas vise argumenata za promenu vetra u slobodi govora, pa ces da probas da mi podmeces neke licne napade. Znas koliko me brine misljenje "mase u Srbiji", jednako kao i tvoje misljenje....

5 hours ago, Smrtokapa said:

Pljušte otkazi i prave se spiskovi nepodobnih koji su napisali ili izgovorili nešto neprikladno povodom Kirkove smrti? Veliki borci za slobodu govora su se zapravo zalagali samo za sopstvenu slobodu govora? Veoma sam iznenađen.

 

Kultura otkazivanja se vraća na desnu stranu političkog spektra, gde i prirodno pripada. Njena demokratizacija je bila kratkoročni trend.

Ako ne branis slobodu govora za nekog ko ti se ne svidja, nemoj sada da se probudis I kukas kako eto to neko ne radi za one koji ti odgovaraju. Budite dosledni, meni se ipak cini da su svi ti late night talk shows, prosto izgubili gledanost, videli smo sa Kolberom da je gubio 40 mill godisnje. Ni u kom slucaju ne podrzavam da se neko ucutkava jer nam se ne svidja sta prica. Neukusno jeste bilo, ali nije razlog za otpustanje....ali....privatna firma, ako im je pravio profit sigurno ga ne bi skidali. On nema "pravo" na milionsku platu, ako nema gledanost.

Mislim da niste primetili da su "normies" napustili odredjene medije. Ljudi u Evropi prate samo delic onog sto se desava u USA, pa im nije jasno da internet nije ogledalo misljenja. Vise ljudi ovde je navelo da nema pojma ko je Kirk, I svoje misljenje su dobili od "svojih" medija, I "svojih" istomisljenika.

[Smrtokapa]

@Angelia

 

Za doslednost, uputio bih te na Frensisov post dve strane pre ove.

 

Quote

privatna firma, ako im je pravio profit sigurno ga ne bi skidali.

 

Znaš, kada u nekoj zemlji krenu da razbijaju izloge radnjama koje drže politički neistomišljnici, odgovor na to nije "da im je radnja bila profitabilna ne bi je zatvorili".

Nemaš četrnaest godina, nemoj ni da daješ argumente na tom nivou.

[zoran59]

On 6/9/2025 at 4:32 PM, zoran59 said:

...

Za moj ukus, skretanje USA na desnu stranu je zapocelo dolaskom Reagana na vlast a za vreme Trumpa se ubrzalo (Reagan je zapoceo prvi mandati iste godine kad sam uselio - koincidencija?). ...

 

Citiram samog sebe, post od pre 3 1/2 meseca.

Tvrdnja koju sam onda izneo jos uvek stoji. Tada se nisam upustao u previse detalja.

A danas se pojavio clanak koji to odlicno objasnjava:

 

'America's Comeback' is nothing but a con job

 

Written by Thom Hartmann

September 18, 2025 

 

When Charlie Kirk was assassinated, he was sitting under a tent that had “The American Comeback Tour” printed in huge letters across all four sides. It was the theme of his tour of college campuses, a tour run by his Turning Point organization that was, according to NBC News, early-funded by 10 morbidly rich right-wingers.

The question is “America Comeback” to what?

In 1981, when Ronald Reagan was sworn into office

- Fully two-thirds of Americans were in the middle class,

- College was so cheap you could pay your tuition with a weekend job,

- Healthcare was inexpensive and widely available,

- Women and minorities had achieved legal (albeit not yet actual) parity with white men,

- And school and mass shootings were largely unknown because weapons of war were mostly outlawed from our streets.

Today, however, as a result of the Reagan Revolution:

Only around half of us are in the middle class,

College debt has crushed two generations to the point where they can’t start a family or buy a house,

A half-million families end up homeless or bankrupt every year because somebody got sick,

The GOP is leading an effort to make it harder for women and minorities to vote or maintain employment,

And, with more guns than people, mass shootings are an almost-daily occurrence.

It's easy to see why an appealing pitch to the nation’s young people would be “comeback” or “Make America Great Again.” But what caused that “greatness” that we need to “come back to” and what wrecked it?

The American middle class is a relatively recent phenomenon. In 1900, only about 17 percent of us were in it; by the time of the Republican Great Depression it was about a quarter of us.

When Franklin D. Roosevelt was sworn into office in 1933, he embarked on a radical new campaign to create the world’s first widespread, more-than-half-of-us middle class. It had three main long-term components.

First, he passed the Wagner Act in 1935 that legalized labor unions and forbade employers from bringing in scab workers or refusing to recognize a union. That gave workers democracy in the workplace, and they used that power to demand that as their productivity increased, so would their pay and benefits.

Second, he established a minimum wage to make sure that people who worked full time would never end up in poverty.

Third, he raised the top income tax rate to 90 percent for the morbidly rich and 52 percent for corporations.

That high top tax rate on the rich meant that the average CEO took only about 30 times what the average worker did (because he’d be paying 90 percent or 74 percent after taking the first few millions), leaving far more money in the company to give raises and benefits to workers.

Corporations could get around their top tax rate by investing in their business. Research and development, new product roll-outs, advertising and marketing, and increasing pay and benefits were all tax-deductible, and that high tax rate incentivized them to do these things that built a strong and resilient manufacturing economy (stock buybacks were considered illegal stock manipulation until 1983).

Reagan undid all of that, lowering the top tax rate on the morbidly rich from 74 percent to 27 percent (it’s since gone up to 34 percent), cutting the top corporate tax rate to 34 percent, and legalizing stock buybacks, so now CEOs are taking literally hundreds of billions out of their companies (Musk is set to make a trillion) and wages for workers have been mostly flat even since 1981.

In similar fashion, Reagan declared war on labor unions so effectively that that one-third of us protected by unions in 1981 has collapsed. Today private sector union membership rates are only 5.9 percent, with some states even lower (North Carolina 2.4 percent, South Dakota 2.7 percent, and South Carolina 2.8 percent.

Regarding college, 80 percent of the cost of an education in state-run colleges and universities was paid by government when Reagan came into office, leaving about 20 percent of the cost to be covered by tuition. The Reagan Revolution changed all that, so that today tuition covers the largest percentage and the state is only covering around 20 percent-40 percent (it varies from state to state).

Healthcare was inexpensive when Reagan came into office because most states required both insurance companies and hospitals to run as nonprofits. There weren’t any billionaire insurance industry executives like Dollar Bill McGuire until Republicans changed the rules of the game, letting insurance companies and hospitals run as profit-making operations at the expense of the American public.

Great strides had also been made in opportunity for minorities and women by 1981; just a decade earlier women had gained the right to have a credit card or sign a mortgage without a husband, brother, or father’s signature. Affirmative Action programs were pulling racial and religious minorities into the mainstream of the American economy, kicking off a widespread Black middle class.

So, if Charlie Kirk was all about an “American Comeback,” what were his positions on the issues that created that broad, widespread middle class that Republicans and Trump promise us they’ll restore when they “Make America Great Again”?

On taxes, Kirk wanted to replace the progressive income tax with a 10 percent flat tax, so even the poorest person is paying income taxes on their meager income while the morbidly rich get a massive tax break.

He called unions “cartels” and celebrated teachers losing the right to unionize.

On college tuition, he opposed any plan to reduce student debt or increase federal or state funding to higher education, calling free college a “bribe.”

And on health care, Kirk opposed the kind of universal health care every other developed country in the world has, calling the VA an example of failed “government-run” healthcare.

With regard to the rights of women and minorities Charlie was also outspoken, most notably saying about prominent Black women Joy Reid, Michelle Obama, Sheila Jackson Lee, and Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, whom he labeled “affirmative action picks”:

“You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person’s slot to go be taken somewhat seriously.”

He added:

“We made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the mid-1960s.”

Finally, with regard to guns, even though 87 percent of Americans want reasonable gun control, Kirk was all-in with the firearms industry, arguing that “some gun deaths every single year” are worth the cost of the late Justice Antonin Scalia’s interpretation of the Second Amendment. How do we protect our kids? Kirk said, quite simply, more guns was the solution:

“If our money and our sporting events and our airplanes have armed guards, why don’t our children?”

So, the question: How does doubling down on low taxes for the morbidly rich, keeping our health care for-profit, withholding higher education funding, gutting unions, increasing the number of guns, and trash-talking women and minorities make America “comeback”?

Republicans and their well-paid hustlers (Kirk took in hundreds of millions) have been promoting these positions for forty-four years and the result has been the gutting of the American middle class, now leading to anger, resentment, and political violence.

It’s way past time for America to return to the policies and positions that history proves (both in America and around the world) produce and build a strong middle class, the essential foundation for economic and political stability.

izvor: 'America's Comeback' is nothing but a con job - Alternet.org

 

Lepa sumarizacija. Na Kirka ne bih trosio reci.

[Helena]

 

 

Prvi amandman?

Edited 4 hours ago by Helena

[Angelia]

12 minutes ago, Smrtokapa said:

@Angelia

 

Za doslednost, uputio bih te na Frensisov post dve strane pre ove.

 

 

Znaš, kada u nekoj zemlji krenu da razbijaju izloge radnjama koje drže politički neistomišljnici, odgovor na to nije "da im je radnja bila profitabilna ne bi je zatvorili".

Nemaš četrnaest godina, nemoj ni da daješ argumente na tom nivou.

Niko nije razbijao radnje, nije pljackao prodavnice zato sto je Charlie Kirk ubijen. Znas sta su radili? Skupili se I molili se za njegovu porodicu... Kirk nije pozivao na politicko nasilje. Nemas 14 godina, I nemoj da dajes argumente na tom nivou. Znas ko ih je napao dok se mole za Charlija, levicari koji skacu na njeglvom grobu.

 

Tipa koji je pozivao na "prove me wrong", na dialog. Tako da, nemoj da koristis razbijanje radnji kao argument

[Smrtokapa]

Haha, NO Y! odgovor.

 

Možda sam ja pogrešio i ti zaista ne razumeš na šta sam pokušao da ti ukažem. Jezička barijera, verovatno, ili sam te precenio.

Napisao sam na drugoj temi da je forumaš robespjer u pravu, te ću prestati da doprinosim đubrenju teme. My bad.

[Angelia]

5 hours ago, robespierre said:

 

Slažem se da SAD tema liči na farmu. S obzirom da na toj temi ordinira slovima i brojevima jedan (1) forumaš tj. forumašica koja misli da SAD ide u dobrom pravcu prosto moram da se zapitam ko je odgovoran što na toj temi maltene nema diskusije i razmene mišljenja, već tema više liči na prosečan anti-Tramp twitter feed. I kad neko pokuša da nešto prodiskutuje tu je dobri vojnik Beo da ga dočeka đonom, da se slučajno ne naruši echo chamber. 

Upravo, nemam ja problem da budem taj jedan glas koji kaze, pogledajte sta pricate, ali wtf pogledajte sta pricate. Nije ljudima smetalo da se iskljucuju glasovi sa desne strane, a sad je qq ll uzeli su nam slobodu govora. Niste nikad bili (ne ti licno) za slobodu govora, sad vam smeta...

[𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂]

1 hour ago, Angelia said:

Upravo, nemam ja problem da budem taj jedan glas koji kaze, pogledajte sta pricate, ali wtf pogledajte sta pricate. Nije ljudima smetalo da se iskljucuju glasovi sa desne strane, a sad je qq ll uzeli su nam slobodu govora. Niste nikad bili (ne ti licno) za slobodu govora, sad vam smeta...

 

Znas sta je neverovatno, to da si ti prototip klasicne mage. Igru koju ste sami zapoceli niste mogli da izdrzite na svojoj kozi. Cak, toliko kukate da vam ne dozvoljavaju da likujete na miru nego suze krokodilske sto vas i u tome uznemiravaju. 

 

Maga snowflakes se tope na -10C

[Angelia]

37 minutes ago, 𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂 said:

 

Znas sta je neverovatno, to da si ti prototip klasicne mage. Igru koju ste sami zapoceli niste mogli da izdrzite na svojoj kozi. Cak, toliko kukate da vam ne dozvoljavaju da likujete na miru nego suze krokodilske sto vas i u tome uznemiravaju. 

 

Maga snowflakes se tope na -10C

Jel mozes da podrzis tvoju tvrdnju da sam "natrljala nos" nekoj masi u Srbiji sa mojim uspehom? Gde sam ja pricala o mom uspehu? Osim da imas problem da sam legalni imigrant. Gde sam ja gurala neki moj uspeh?

[nonick]

 

Deca od 12 godina da gledaju javne egzekucije. 

[𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂]

8 minutes ago, nonick said:

Deca od 12 godina da gledaju javne egzekucije. 

 

Danas valjd javne egzakucije postoje samo u severnoj koreji nigde vise. 

Iako on misli na sistem zastrasivanja, ustvari protivureci samom sebi kada insistira da se bori za ljudska i moralna prava, a zbog ljudskih prava su javne egzakucije i ukinute. 

 

Mislim, kroz istoriju javne egzakucije nisu zaustavile kriminal same po sebi, samo su bile oblik kaznjavanja, kao sto ni zatvoske pa cak i smrtne kazne nisu zaustavile kriminal kasnije. Javne egzakucije su postale vid zabave, a ne sistem zastrasivanja vremenom dok su se upraznjavala. 

 

Ja ne znam kakvu oni decu u buducnost vide i u sta ta deca treba da se pretvore kada smatraju da je seks sa njima sasvim ok imati od ranog puberteta, da radjaju drugu decu, do oruzja kojim treba da se opasu, pa na kraju da igraju oko giljotirane glave... Meni to lici na propast civilizacije. Ne znam sta ce nam onda kuce kad mozemo da zivimo po sumama i pecinama... sta ce nam lek, kad mozemo da zvacemo trave i idemo kod vraca. 

[𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂]

Ovo bese dok se obecava, a onda...

 

Danas: Trump Threatens Licenses of TV Stations That Criticize Him

 

(Bloomberg) -- President Donald Trump said US broadcast networks should face scrutiny over their licenses if they’re too critical of him, in what amounts to his furthest-reaching threat to media freedoms.

“When you have a network and you have evening shows, and all they do is hit Trump,” Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One on Thursday. “I would think maybe their license should be taken away.”

 

Ne laje kera sela radi, nego sebe radi.