Covid-19 / SARS-Cov2 - naučne/medicinske informacije i analize

[ciao]

4 hours ago, handys said:

 

Problem je sto ne znamo da li radi, niti znamo sta radi onima koji nemaju oboljenja za koje je lek napravljen. Problem je sto ne znamo dugorocne efekte, problem je sto ako se daje bolesnicima u ranoj fazi, pa posle davanja leka bolest prodje, bez kontrolnih grupa i boljeg uzorka ne znamo da li bi bolest prosla i bez davanja leka, da li je prosla uprkos leku ili zahvaljujuci njemu.

 

To stoji da nije dovoljno ispitan, bice - pitanje je mozda eticko, lekarsko, ne znam - da li u ovim situacijama lek koristiti ili ne koristiti nista;

Sto se tice pitanja "ne znamo da li bi bolest prosla i bez davanja leka, da li je prosla uprkos leku ili zahvaljujuci njemu. " mislim da je to pitanje za koje odgovor postoji - Raoult kaze (ne secam se da li sam ga slusala ili pise da ne trazim citiranje ali sigurna sam da je to jedan od rezultata)  da lek pomaze samo onima koji bi ozdravili i bez leka, drugim recima onima koji imaju u polazu veliki hendikep tipa zesce starost, rak, dijabetes - i uglavnom ne mogu da se izbore sa virusom - njima terapija sa cloroqinom nece pomoci, i nece pomoci onima koji su kasno poceli da uzimaju terapiju tj virus se vec zesce spustio na pluca i poceo uveliko da ih rastura. Onima koji bi se i sami izborili sa virusom a pocnu da uzimaju lek na vreme ce se izboriti brze nego sto bi se izborili da uzimaju samo paracetamol. Pretpostavljam da u onom prikazu lekara opste prakse nije navedeno sta bi bilo da nisu dali nista pacijentu koji ima pozitivan test na koronu i visoku temperaturu jer to nijedan lekar nece da uradi, da te ostavi sa temperaturom i ne da ti nista da pokusa da je spusti.

Do sada nije bilo drugog odobrenog protokola za koronu koliko ja znam, sada ima i remsidivir, moze se reci i da su komplementarni koliko vidim, remsidivir kazu da se daje pacijentima koji su bas zaglavili koliko razumem, na te Raoultova terapija ne deluje po njemu, a za remsidivir kazu da se daje bas u tim slucajevima i da ima uspeha, ne sto posto ali nek spasi i jednog od sto koji bi umrli bez - super sto se mene tice

Edited May 3, 2020 by ciao

[Laki21]

10 hours ago, Eddard said:

Tragični je možda malo preterano (mada mogu biti), ali ozbiljni jesu. A koristi se kao i svaki drugi lek sa ozbiljnim neželjenim efektima, kontrolisano, kod tačno određenih pacijenata u tačno određenoj dozi, da bi se smanjila verovatnoća istih.

 

Da je tako ne bi se nalazio u slobodnoj prodaji u zemljama poput Francuske.

 

PS

 

Praktično nema leka koji ne može imati ozbiljne nuspojave ako se uzima kako nije propisano.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Laki21

[Don Juan]

On 5/2/2020 at 1:28 PM, ciao said:

(ima par nemackih pacijenata) sto se tice remsidira pa su valjda trebali zajedno vakcinu i zajedno remsidivir ali izgleda da ih je Angela otkacila, nece da proda ...   -moze ovo i na zahebanicju mada cucemo jednog dana sta se desavalo, sva sreca epidemija po svoj prilici prolazi i stisava se

Ne pita se tu Mekelova mnogo. Navodno je, Hop vlasnik CureVac-a odbio ponudu koju je imao.

[Angelia]

Cuomo pointed to the roughly 900 new coronavirus cases that hospitals in New York are still reporting daily and the fact that officials do not know where those infections are coming from, as reason enough to continue keeping the Empire State shut down.

The governor also released the preliminary results of a statewide antibody survey of about 15,000 people showing that 12.3% had been previously infected with the virus.

It confirmed the results of another test with a smaller sample size released about 10 days ago showing that one in five New York City residents has had the virus, with the Bronx borough seeing the highest number positive for antibodies at 27.6%.

[Jataganac]

B92: Ni vakcine, ni maske, ni distanciranje: Od virusa bi mogao da nas štiti - sprej

 

http://www.b92.net/zdravlje/vesti.php?yyyy=2020&mm=05&dd=03&nav_id=1680477

 

Jeste da je fake92, ali vaznije je cije reci prenosi.

[ciao]

To sa sprejom bi bilo dobro !

 

Videla sam na tv da u Fra pocinju sa dresurom pasa za detekciju virusa kod ljudi - kazu da ljudi koji imaju coronavirus imaju neki specifican miris koji pas moze da oseti ako je dobro izdresiran. Kazu da vec ima pasa koji tako detektuju rak, nisam znala. Uglavnom pokazali kako dresiraju - ampulu sa pozitivnim testom sakriju negde i kazu psu da trazi i on njuska i nadje - neke su vec istrenirali a imaju nameru jos puno pasa da utreniraju;

 

Nije lose resenje - sprej ujutro da se zastitimo, a malo malo pa psi njuskaju umesto testa, jos neki lekic tog tipa da se nadje i mirni smo

Edited May 3, 2020 by ciao

[Angelia]

US regulators authorized Sunday emergency use of a coronavirus antibody test that is more than 99% accurate, addressing concerns about high false positive rates that have plagued some of the first tests.

The test is made by Roche, a Swiss giant in the pharmaceutical and diagnostics industries. Roche said Sunday it will boost its manufacturing to produce "high double-digit millions per month" of the test.

....

It will take about 18 minutes to process a single test, with Roche's devices able to run up to 300 tests per hour in an automated fashion, the company said. 

 

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-antibody-test-more-99-141057975.html

[Laki21]

Zamolio bih ko god naiđe na info kako do PCR testa da napiše ovde, ili mi pošalje na PP. 

 

PS

 

Nije problem ni plaćanje.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Laki21

[melankolic]

S obzirom da kod nekih ljudi još postoji dilema da li su mere izolacije pravo rešenje tokom pandemije, navešću samo jedan primer (može se videti i u dokumentarcu o COVID- 19 na Netflixu) a to je poređenje St. Louisa i Philadelphie glede posledica španske groznice (H1N1) koja je zahvatila Ameriku 1918. godine.

 

Naime, u St. Louisu je umrlo 358 / 100.000 stanovnika (drastične mere) a u Philadelphiji 748 / 100.000.

 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-how-st-louis-vs-philadelphia-treated-1918-flu-pandemic-2020-4

[wwww]

 

40 minutes ago, melankolic said:

S obzirom da kod nekih ljudi još postoji dilema da li su mere izolacije pravo rešenje tokom pandemije, navešću samo jedan primer (može se videti i u dokumentarcu o COVID- 19 na Netflixu) a to je poređenje St. Louisa i Philadelphie glede posledica španske groznice (H1N1) koja je zahvatila Ameriku 1918. godine.

 

Naime, u St. Louisu je umrlo 358 / 100.000 stanovnika (drastične mere) a u Philadelphiji 748 / 100.000.

 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-how-st-louis-vs-philadelphia-treated-1918-flu-pandemic-2020-4

U ovom clanku imaju dijagrami za razlicite gradove:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/

 

jos jedan iz guardiana (oni nisu pod uticajem americkih Demokrata 😞

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/29/us-responses-1918-flu-pandemic-offer-stark-lessons-coronavirus-now

 

Quote

Public health leaders had a range of tools at hand. They began by training the population in basic hygienic practices – washing their hands and covering coughs and sneezes. The USPHS printed millions of pamphlets providing information on the disease and recommending precautions for avoiding and treating the illness. The American Red Cross published its own circular in eight different languages. Many communities passed laws against public spitting, and banned the common drinking cup still shared in public spaces such as schoolrooms and train stations.

 

These were the easy steps. Soon, better ventilation was called for on streetcars, and some cities staggered work times and store hours to prevent crowding. The flu kept coming, and more comprehensive controls often followed. Bans on public gatherings, the closure of all but the most essential businesses, even prohibitions on weddings and funerals frequently followed. Some cities tried requiring the wearing of masks. Others turned to quarantining the sick. There were even cities that employed new and untested vaccines.

 

c, c, c, izgleda da su u USA s pocetka 20. veka vise cenili ljudski zivot nego slobodu

Edited May 4, 2020 by wwww

[wwww]

18 minutes ago, wwww said:

 

jos jedan iz guardiana (oni nisu pod uticajem americkih Demokrata 😞

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/29/us-responses-1918-flu-pandemic-offer-stark-lessons-coronavirus-now

 

 

 evo i poredjenje Filadelfije i Sietla:

 

Quote

But what’s most useful to us today is the comparative experience of Philadelphia and Seattle. Philadelphia, despite having some warning that the pandemic was coming, did little to prepare. Though Boston was under siege by late September, Philadelphia continued to conduct business as usual. On 28 September it hosted a massive kickoff parade for the Fourth Liberty Loan, the bond drive used to support the American war effort. Three days later the city reported 635 new influenza cases, and the situation soon worsened. Though the city now moved to protect itself, Philadelphia was overwhelmed by the epidemic. Available healthcare resources, already compromised by the war effort, were quickly stretched past their limits. Morgues overflowing with the dead, a desperate shortage of coffins and a resort to mass graves resulted from the city’s failure to move early to prepare. Philadelphia suffered one of the nation’s highest death rates.

 

Quote

Seattle offers a very different story. On 20 September, the city’s commissioner of health, Dr JS McBride, acknowledged that “it was not unlikely” that influenza would reach the city and warned the citizenry that, if it did, isolating cases would be necessary. When soldiers at nearby Camp Lewis came down with the flu, the camp was quarantined. On 4 October, the story broke that large numbers of students at the naval training station at the University of Washington had contracted influenza. Within two days the city had, despite significant opposition, closed schools, prohibited church services and shuttered many public entertainments. Crowding was prohibited in those businesses still operating.

 

In the days to come, other measures followed. A local hotel was requisitioned for use as an emergency hospital. Spitting in public could mean a jail cell and public shaming, the wearing of masks was required in public, business hours were shortened and further limitations were placed on those allowed to remain open. Though he had initially hoped the pandemic would pass in less than a week, the health commissioner maintained the restrictions, even as the number of cases began to decrease. Finally, on 11 November, both the city and state announced an end to closures and masking. Not uncommonly, the city soon faced a return of the disease. Again the city acted, this time quarantining the sick. As a result of these actions, Seattle suffered one of the lower death rates on the West Coast, substantially lower than Philadelphia’s.

 

Quote

There was certainly opposition to the kinds of restrictions Americans faced during the 1918 pandemic. Church leaders routinely protested that, in the midst of a pandemic, their congregants’ needs were best met by access to religious gatherings. Business owners fought hard to stay open. Theatre owners pursued legal challenges, while opposition was voiced to school closures. In San Francisco, an “Anti-Mask League” organised against face-coverings.

 

But the authorities that resisted this opposition fared the best. Research conducted by scholars at the Center for the History of Medicine at the University of Michigan and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention makes clear that the “early, sustained, and layered” imposition of non-pharmaceutical interventions such as social distancing worked in 1918, slowing the pandemic’s pace and lowering death rates. And Seattle and Philadelphia offer a stark lesson – imposing “shelter-in-place” orders, as well as other measures such as public masking and the quarantining of the sick and infected, saves lives.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by wwww

[Angelia]

8 minutes ago, wwww said:

 evo i poredjenje Filadelfije i Sietla:

 

 

 

 

Uh sta ustvari poredis, Philadelphia organizovala paradu usred epidemije....

Ko je ikad rekao da treba praviti parade?

[wwww]

3 minutes ago, Angelia said:

Uh sta ustvari poredis, Philadelphia organizovala paradu usred epidemije....

Ko je ikad rekao da treba praviti parade?

Nemoj mene da bijes, zali se autoru iz guardiana.

[𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂]

7 minutes ago, Angelia said:

 

Ko je ikad rekao da treba praviti parade?

 

Niko nije rekao da treba praviti parade, napravili su da docekaju vojsku koja se vraca iz rata i zarazili se jer je vojska bila zarazena. 

Da li je bilo pametno, nije. Ali da li se nesto iz toga treba nauciti, treba, medjutim... isto smo glupi kao pre jednog veka. 

Ljudi retko uce iz istorije, koja nam se u nedogled ponavlja. Vecina dobacuje u istoriju samo od kada dobije predmet u skoli, pa tu i tamo nesto malo nauci, ali i zaboravi i ne koristi da koriguje misljenje. 

[Angelia]

21 minutes ago, wwww said:

Nemoj mene da bijes, zali se autoru iz guardiana.

Vidi paralela sa pandemijom 1918 se razmatrala, nemam sta da prigovorim autoru, samo mi nije jasno zasto si okacila text.

[wwww]

4 minutes ago, Angelia said:

Vidi paralela sa pandemijom 1918 se razmatrala, nemam sta da prigovorim autoru, samo mi nije jasno zasto si okacila text.

zato sto je zaraza covid-19 virusom obican grip, logicno.

[Angelia]

Just now, wwww said:

zato sto je zaraza covid-19 virusom obican grip, logicno.

Ne vidim kako je ovo odgovor na moje pitanje. Hoces da kazes da je Spanska groznica?

[wwww]

pa naravno

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by wwww

[Angelia]

37 minutes ago, wwww said:

pa naravno

 

Meni se cini da je spanska groznica imala mnogo vecu smrtnost - neke procene koje sam citala su da su od nje umrle desetina miliona.

Mozda gresim.....

[wwww]

7 minutes ago, Angelia said:

Meni se cini da je spanska groznica imala mnogo vecu smrtnost - neke procene koje sam citala su da su od nje umrle desetina miliona.

Mozda gresim.....

kolika je bila smrtnost spanskog gripa, a kolika je covid-19?

[melankolic]

6 minutes ago, Angelia said:

Meni se cini da je spanska groznica imala mnogo vecu smrtnost - neke procene koje sam citala su da su od nje umrle desetina miliona.

Mozda gresim.....

Medicina, a posebno epidemiologija, tada nije bila kao danas.

Možda i to ima nekog značaja, ko zna?

[𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂]

5 minutes ago, Angelia said:

Meni se cini da je spanska groznica imala mnogo vecu smrtnost - neke procene koje sam citala su da su od nje umrle desetina miliona.

Mozda gresim.....

 

Da, pre 100 godina u toku svetskog rata. Bilo bi malo cudno da posle 100 godina, svi lekova, tehnologije i napretka nauke, u mirnodopsko vreme umre 50 miliona ljudi. 

Trampu treba javiti da nije svaki virus flu. 

[double fault]

spanska groznica je prema podacima odnela oko 50 miliona zivota a dobila je naziv po tome sto se u spaniji pisalo o njoj slobodno dok je svuda vladala cenzura medija a ne prema nultom pacijentu u esp.

 

[NMX]

5 minutes ago, vanjabarsa said:

spanska groznica je prema podacima odnela oko 50 miliona zivota a dobila je naziv po tome sto se u spaniji pisalo o njoj slobodno dok je svuda vladala cenzura medija a ne prema nultom pacijentu u esp.

 

 

Pa da. A nulti pacijent se ne zna odakle je tačno (nagađanja su Francuska, VB i Kina) ali se sa sigurnošću zna da nije Španija. 

[Angelia]

1 hour ago, wwww said:

kolika je bila smrtnost spanskog gripa, a kolika je covid-19?

Pa ako je tacno po procenama da je oko 500 mil bilo zarazeno a 50 mil umrlo....a za coronu se sad racuna bilo sta izmedju 0.11% pa do 5-6% sa ocekivanjem da ce biti ipak negde ispod 0.5% - valjda je jasno da je bio smrtonosniji.

1 hour ago, melankolic said:

Medicina, a posebno epidemiologija, tada nije bila kao danas.

Možda i to ima nekog značaja, ko zna?

Mozda.

47 minutes ago, NMX said:

 

Pa da. A nulti pacijent se ne zna odakle je tačno (nagađanja su Francuska, VB i Kina) ali se sa sigurnošću zna da nije Španija. 

Pretpostavka je da je cak poceo iz US.