ters Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 7:35 PM, Plavi Golub said: Sporan mi je to kriterijum odredjivanja relativnog dobrog i loseg u politici za to sam te i pitala i mislim da se razilazimo oko toga. Odredjene vrste ponasanja odaju licnosti koje nisu pogodne da se bave nekim poslom. I za banalnije poslove u svetu se trazi da si pod libelu. I ne moze svako da radi sve. Tako da ako prdne, podrigne ili pljune gde ne treba (izvinjenje gadljivima) ne smatra me se. Ako pokazuje druge patologije nije tesko ekstrapolirati kako to moze da utice na neciji zivot ako se nadje na mestu za koje nema kapacitet, a ni samosvest da mu/joj tu nije mesto. Nije da svet svako malo ne iskijavava hodajuce poremecaje koje na vlast dovodi kombinacija na pare i moc alavih oportunista, i podanika kulta. Ako funkciju koristi za bogacenje sebe i kruga oko sebe ispod radara prebacivanjem javnih para sistemom leve ruka desni dzep, a stanovnistvo vraca u vreme pre “Matije Gubca” saljuci mu podsvesnu poruku kako je tu jer nesposobno to mi smeta. Expand Sporna jje i lazna dilema izmedju "nekulturnog" a "uspjesnog" i "kulturnog" a "neuspjesnog" politicara u kontekstu u kojem pricamo o vodjstvu USA - Tramp je nekulturan i neuspjesan... Rezultati njegove politike su vidljivi na ulicama americkih gradova svaki dan... I ovi ovi koji tjeraju ljude da dignu ruku u znak podrske BLM, i ovo dijete koje se dokopalo puske i ubilo dvoje ljudi - su rezultat trenutne USA unutrasnje politike koju trenutno vodi Tramp... Njegova je politika da ceka tri dana nakon smrti George Floyd-a da bi nakon sto je imao tri dana da sa svojim politickim timom i piscima govora sroci :"That was a very, very bad thing that I saw. I saw it last night and I didn't like it...what I saw was not good. Very bad.". i to izgovori sa manje emocija nego kad prica o Goya beans... To je svjesna odluka. To je politika koja treba iziritirati drugu stranu i isprovocirati odgovor.... I koja luci rezultate koje sada vidimo. 3 1
Angelia Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 6:43 PM, Baby said: biz.gov Idi pa trazi sta te interesuje... Expand Sorry... biz.gov could not be found. It may be unavailable or may not exist. Try using the suggestions or related links below, or search again using our web search. Ali ajde da pretpostavim da si mislila bls.gov https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf Ja koliko vidim porast proizvodnih poslova, znam da citam grafikone. E sad da kopam po celom sajtu da trazim kako si ti dosla do nekih zakljucaka....to ne mogu. 1
Down With The Sickness Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 9:09 PM, Angelia said: Sorry... biz.gov could not be found. Expand Sta? Uvalila ti nepostojeci sajt da ga zacas prekopas, da nadjes to sto je ona izmislila? Legenda ! 1
Angelia Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 8:53 PM, Baby said: Vidi Andjo, ja da bih ovo videla, jer me interesuje sam provela sate proucavanja i povezivanja. Vase tvrdnje su isto toliko validne kao i moje. Nemam zabelezeno jer sam to radila zbog sebe, a ne zbog vas. Uputila sam vas na sajt na kome imate sve podatke, ako vas toliko interesuje, potrudite se sami. Expand Baby, tvoje tvrdnje nisu isto validne, jer ti nemas ni izvore, ni misljenje strucnjaka na tu temu. u stvari misljenja su potpuno suprotna od tvojih. 20 minutes ago, Baby said: Vi kao papagaji ponavljate kao nesto validno sto Tramp kaze i onda burgijate po zakonima da dokazete da je legalno. Da, vecina stvari jeste legalna, a kada je prekrsio ubistese da ga opravdate. Vi zaista mislite da su ljudi tolike budale i da rade samo mrznje radi da bi impicovali? Ono, svi u US debili ali Tramp and co. pure intelect. Expand Posto ovo napisano nema uopste smisla, i nemam pojam o cemu govoris, tesko je odgovoriti. 20 minutes ago, Baby said: Da, mrzim budalu, nemam problem to da kazem glasno kao sto vi imate problem da kazete da ste "zaljubljeni" u idiota, nego to pokrivate nekim vestima kako druga strana ne valja, kao da neko uopste prica da su oni bajni (ali su u svakom slucaju bolji od njega). Mrzim ga jer gledam kako radi i sta radi, kako govori i sta govori i gledam rezultat svega toga sire od moje ulice. Evo idi na biz.gov i nadji koliko je poslova proizvodnje smanjeno. Pa onda procitaj sta proizvodnja znaci za neku drzavu. Ne, tu Tramp nije kriv, ali je kriv jer laze podatke na koje vi padate, to traje odavno. Za sta ga konkretno treba nagraditi drugim mandatom? Expand znaci ili mrzis il zi zaljubljen? Zato ja ne volim histeriju.... Nisam znala da se predsednik nagradjuje drugim mandatom, i da to treba da mi bude bitno. Ja sam raspravljala sa tobom neke stvari koje si ti iznela, a ne tvoju ljubav ili mrznju prema Trampu. Vidis ja smatram da za to "stanje" koje ti pominjes, treba da se obratis Dems, koji histerisu od 2016te, tako da nisam sigurna kakave rezultate gledas. 1
ters Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) On 8/28/2020 at 9:09 PM, Angelia said: Sorry... biz.gov could not be found. It may be unavailable or may not exist. Try using the suggestions or related links below, or search again using our web search. Ali ajde da pretpostavim da si mislila bls.gov https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf Ja koliko vidim porast proizvodnih poslova, znam da citam grafikone. E sad da kopam po celom sajtu da trazim kako si ti dosla do nekih zakljucaka....to ne mogu. Expand Ovo je odlican dokument koji u stvari pokazuje da je trend rast zaposlenosti sve fo korona krize bio konstantan zadnjih deset godina.... Gotovo idealno prava linija... Sa i bez Trampa ( ili za drugu stranu - sa i bez Obame) i njihovih revolucionarnih ekonomskih zahvata. Edited August 28, 2020 by ters
Down With The Sickness Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) On 8/28/2020 at 9:25 PM, ters said: Ovo je odlican dokument koji u stvari pokazuje da je trend rast zaposlenosti sve fo korona krize bio konstantan zadnjih deset godina.... Gotovo idealno prava linija... Sa i bez Trampa ( ili za drugu stranu - sa i bez Obame) Expand Potpuno nerazumevanje ......... Obama je imao "idealno pravu liniju" posle svetske krize koja je jenjavala i ljudi se vracali na stare poslove (ocekivana prava linija). Trump je dosao u trenutku kada je trebalo zaposliti nove ljude sto je mnogo teze i sto je i postigao smanjenjem taksi koje stimulisu poslodavce da zaposle vise ljudi. (linija koja nije trebala biti prava, ali jeste bila) Kako bih ti objasnio? Zamisli trku na 800 metara koju trce Obama i Trump. Obami se meri prvi krug, a Trumpu drugi i proglasava se pobednik. I zamisli ..... Trump ima isto vreme (idealno prava linija). Ustvari znacajno bolji rezultat, ali te s tim sada ne bih zamarao, ne bi ti to shvatio. Da bi razumeo bolje, istim trikom (lazima) se danas koristi Trump ...... on sada prica kako je u junu i julu postigao rekordan broj novo-kreiranih poslova u istoriji USA. Oni koji nemaju pojma o ekonomiji mu veruju, ali tu nema nikakvih novo-kreiranih poslova, to su ljudi koji se - jako brzo - vracaju na poslove sa kojih su otpusteni zbog korone. Ti ne mozes da citas grafikone jer ih ne razumes, to je za tebe cica Glisa, nisi sposoban da ih tumacis u kontekstu brojnih faktora koji na tu liniju koju gledas imaju presudan uticaj. Mada je to, na ovom nivou, vise logika nego nekakav rocket science. Ali eto ... ti ni toliko. Edited August 28, 2020 by Down With The Sickness
𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂 Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) On 8/28/2020 at 9:09 PM, Angelia said: Sorry... biz.gov could not be found. It may be unavailable or may not exist. Try using the suggestions or related links below, or search again using our web search. Ali ajde da pretpostavim da si mislila bls.gov https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf Ja koliko vidim porast proizvodnih poslova, znam da citam grafikone. E sad da kopam po celom sajtu da trazim kako si ti dosla do nekih zakljucaka....to ne mogu. Expand Whatever je naziv sajta, eto wow uhvatila si me na delu... da nosim cvike (sto inace i znas). Ne mozes da nadjes jednu tabelu, nego treba da otvaras gomilu tabela, zato i necu da vam radim posao i ovako bi ste ga ispljuvali... Nadji tabele gde mozes da odredis godine od kada do kada posmatras pa prati po vrstama zaposlenja... ako te bas toliko interesuje Edited August 28, 2020 by Baby
Yoyogi Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 9:25 PM, ters said: Ovo je odlican dokument koji u stvari pokazuje da je trend rast zaposlenosti sve fo korona krize bio konstantan zadnjih deset godina.... Gotovo idealno prava linija... Sa i bez Trampa ( ili za drugu stranu - sa i bez Obame) i njihovih revolucionarnih ekonomskih zahvata. Expand A 90% tih poslova su bili isporučioci paketa kao amazon.com i security guards, ono što nije moglo da se autsorsuje u Indiju.
ters Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) On 8/28/2020 at 9:50 PM, Down With The Sickness said: Potpuno nerazumevanje ......... Obama je imao "idealno pravu liniju" posle svetske krize koja je jenjavala i ljudi se vracali na stare poslove (ocekivana prava linija). Trump je dosao u trenutku kada je trebalo zaposliti nove ljude sto je mnogo teze i sto je i postigao smanjenjem taksi koje stimulisu poslodavce da zaposle vise ljudi. (linija koja nije trebala biti prava, ali jeste bila) Kako bih ti objasnio? Zamisli trku na 800 metara koju trce Obama i Trump. Obami se meri prvi krug, a Trumpu drugi i proglasava se pobednik. I zamisli ..... Trump ima isto vreme (idealno prava linija). Ustvari znacajno bolji rezultat, ali te s tim sada ne bih zamarao. Da bi razumeo bolje, istim trikom (lazima) se danas koristi Trump ...... on sada prica kako je u junu i julu postigao rekordan broj novo-kreiranih poslova u istoriji USA. Oni koji nemaju pojma o ekonomiji mu veruju, ali tu nema nikakvih novo-kreiranih poslova, to su ljudi koji se vracaju na poslove sa kojih su otpusteni zbog korone. Ti ne mozes da citas grafikone jer ih ne razumes, to je za tebe cica Glisa, nisi sposoban da ih tumacis u kontekstu brojnih faktora koji na tu liniju koju gledas imaju presudan uticaj. Mada je to, na ovom nivou, vise logika nego nekakav rocket science. Ali eto ... ti ni toliko. Expand Onda je slican graf u Kanadi zasluga mladjanog Dzastina. koji je "trcao drugi krug" :) - Tvoja logika, tvoje rijeci, tvoj premijer izabran tvojim glasom... Toliko ovaj put od mene - mislim da sam zavrsio razgvoro sa tobom za ubuduce. Edited August 28, 2020 by ters
Down With The Sickness Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 10:00 PM, ters said: Onda je slican graf u Kanadi zasluga mladjanog Dzastina. koji je "trcao drugi krug" 🙂 - Tvoja logika, tvoje rijeci, tvoj premijer izabran tvojim glasom... Expand Naravno da je graf preslikan americki jer je kanadska ekonomija zavisnija od Amerike nego narkoman od heroina. Zato je pad GDP u poslednjem kvartalu u Kanadi, taj podatak je danas objavljen - 39%, dok je u Americi 33%. Oni ki'nu mi se prehladimo. I to ima veze sa Trudeau-om isto koliko i sa mnom. Mozda i manje. On se u svoj posao ne mesa, samo presvlaci 'aljine.
𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂 Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 9:22 PM, Angelia said: znaci ili mrzis il zi zaljubljen? Zato ja ne volim histeriju.... Expand Pa ja ne znam kako da definisem taj fan stav prema politicarima. Meni je to fantasticno debilno da se bilo koji politicar toliko hvali kao sto se ovde hvali Tramp. Ni jedan ne zasluzuje toliku hvalu, a posebno ne neki koji demontira sistem (ne mogu da vrtim na ovu konstataciju ponovo, imas snimak stranu dve ispred i tvrdnje nekog ko je radio u njegovoj administraciji, a nije jedini). I to sve radite zarad cega? Dosta vam je prevelike politicke korektnosti i setanja po jajima dok pricate o drugima i volite brutalno nazivanje stvari pravim imenima? Pa ni meni nije bas toliko milo, ali mi i to milije od ovog blacenja po svima dok se na drugu stranu radi isto to sto se blati, pa jos pride. Ili postoji neki drugi razlog? Ono, toliko ima para da samo sto ljude mrzi da se penju po drvecu i da beru, cveta ljubav i mir, nema oruzanog napada (iako ima drugih vrsta ratovanja, npr. trzisnih)... Koji je razlog sto ste toliko opcinjeni njime? Evo, nece me mrzeti da po treci put stavim tekst nekog cije misljenje za moj pojam je mnogo validnije nego od samohvale Trampove administracije: Reveal hidden contents Renowned economist Professor Joseph Stiglitz argues Donald Trump might have been a good president for the top 1 percent but has not been so for everyone else. As the world’s business elites trek to Davos for their annual gathering, people should be asking a simple question: Have they overcome their infatuation with US President Donald Trump? Two years ago, a few rare corporate leaders were concerned about climate change, or upset at Trump’s misogyny and bigotry. Most, however, were celebrating the president’s tax cuts for billionaires and corporations and looking forward to his efforts to deregulate the economy. That would allow businesses to pollute the air more, get more Americans hooked on opioids, entice more children to eat their diabetes-inducing foods, and engage in the sort of financial shenanigans that brought on the 2008 crisis. Today, many corporate bosses are still talking about the continued GDP growth and record stock prices. But neither GDP nor the Dow is a good measure of economic performance. Neither tells us what’s happening to ordinary citizens’ living standards or anything about sustainability. In fact, US economic performance over the past four years is Exhibit A in the indictment against relying on these indicators. To get a good reading on a country’s economic health, start by looking at the health of its citizens. If they are happy and prosperous, they will be healthy and live longer. Among developed countries, America sits at the bottom in this regard. US life expectancy, already relatively low, fell in each of the first two years of Trump’s presidency, and in 2017, midlife mortality reached its highest rate since World War II. This is not a surprise, because no president has worked harder to make sure that more Americans lack health insurance. Millions have lost their coverage, and the uninsured rate has risen, in just two years, from 10.9 percent to 13.7 percent. One reason for declining life expectancy in America is what Anne Case and Nobel laureate economist Angus Deaton call deaths of despair, caused by alcohol, drug overdoses, and suicide. In 2017 (the most recent year for which good data are available), such deaths stood at almost four times their 1999 level. The only time I have seen anything like these declines in health – outside of war or epidemics – was when I was chief economist of the World Bank and found out that mortality and morbidity data confirmed what our economic indicators suggested about the dismal state of the post-Soviet Russian economy. Trump may be a good president for the top 1 percent – and especially for the top 0.1 percent – but he has not been good for everyone else. If fully implemented, the 2017 tax cut will result in tax increases for most households in the second, third, and fourth income quintiles. Given tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the ultrarich and corporations, it should come as no surprise that there was no significant change in the median US household’s disposable income between 2017 and 2018 (again, the most recent year with good data). The lion’s share of the increase in GDP is also going to those at the top. Real median weekly earnings are just 2.6 percent above their level when Trump took office. And these increases have not offset long periods of wage stagnation. For example, the median wage of a full-time male worker (and those with full-time jobs are the lucky ones) is still more than 3% percent below what it was 40 years ago. Nor has there been much progress on reducing racial disparities: in the third quarter of 2019, median weekly earnings for black men working full-time were less than three-quarters the level for white men. Making matters worse, the growth that has occurred is not environmentally sustainable – and even less so thanks to the Trump administration’s gutting of regulations that have passed stringent cost-benefit analyses. The air will be less breathable, the water less drinkable, and the planet more subject to climate change. In fact, losses related to climate change have already reached new highs in the US, which has suffered more property damage than any other country – reaching some 1.5 percent of GDP in 2017. The tax cuts were supposed to spur a new wave of investment. Instead, they triggered an all-time record binge of share buybacks – some $US800 billion in 2018 – by some of America’s most profitable companies, and led to record peacetime deficits (almost $1 trillion in fiscal 2019) in a country supposedly near full employment. And even with weak investment, the US had to borrow massively abroad: the most recent data show foreign borrowing at nearly $500 billion a year, with an increase of more than 10 percent in America’s net indebtedness position in one year alone. Likewise, Trump’s trade wars, for all their sound and fury, have not reduced the US trade deficit, which was one-quarter higher in 2018 than it was in 2016. The 2018 goods deficit was the largest on record. Even the deficit in trade with China was up almost a quarter from 2016. The US did get a new North American trade agreement, without the investment agreement provisions that the Business Roundtable wanted, without the provisions raising drug prices that the pharmaceutical companies wanted, and with better labour and environmental provisions. Trump, a self-proclaimed master deal maker, lost on almost every front in his negotiations with congressional Democrats, resulting in a slightly improved trade arrangement. And despite Trump’s vaunted promises to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, the increase in manufacturing employment is still lower than it was under his predecessor, Barack Obama, once the post-2008 recovery set in, and is still markedly below its pre-crisis level. Even the unemployment rate, at a 50-year low, masks economic fragility. The employment rate for working-age males and females, while rising, has increased less than during the Obama recovery, and is still significantly below that of other developed countries. The pace of job creation is also markedly slower than it was under Obama. Again, the low employment rate is not a surprise, not least because unhealthy people can’t work. Moreover, those on disability benefits, in prison – the US incarceration rate has increased more than sixfold since 1970, with some two million people currently behind bars – or so discouraged that they are not actively seeking jobs are not counted as “unemployed.” But, of course, they are not employed. Nor is it a surprise that a country that doesn’t provide affordable childcare or guarantee family leave would have lower female employment – adjusted for population, more than 10 percentage points lower – than other developed countries. Even judging by GDP, the Trump economy falls short. Last quarter’s growth was just 2.1 percent, far less than the 4, 5, or even 6 percent Trump promised to deliver, and even less than the 2.4 percent average of Obama’s second term. That is a remarkably poor performance considering the stimulus provided by the $1 trillion deficit and ultra-low interest rates. This is not an accident, or just a matter of bad luck: Trump’s brand is uncertainty, volatility, and prevarication, whereas trust, stability, and confidence are essential for growth. So is equality, according to the International Monetary Fund. So, Trump deserves failing grades not just on essential tasks like upholding democracy and preserving our planet. He should not get a pass on the economy, either. Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics, is University Professor at Columbia University and Chief Economist at the Roosevelt Institute. His most recent book is People, Power, and Profits: Progressive Capitalism for an Age of Discontent.
Angelia Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 9:54 PM, Baby said: Whatever je naziv sajta, eto wow uhvatila si me na delu... da nosim cvike (sto inace i znas). Ne mozes da nadjes jednu tabelu, nego treba da otvaras gomilu tabela, zato i necu da vam radim posao i ovako bi ste ga ispljuvali... Nadji tabele gde mozes da odredis godine od kada do kada posmatras pa prati po vrstama zaposlenja... ako te bas toliko interesuje Expand Pa evo nasla ti ja grafikone da se ne mucis, koji dokazuju rast radnih mesta u proizvodnji. Odradili oni i analizu da ja i ti ne moramo da se raspravljamo Znaci dokazuju da ti nisi u pravu On 8/28/2020 at 9:25 PM, ters said: Ovo je odlican dokument koji u stvari pokazuje da je trend rast zaposlenosti sve fo korona krize bio konstantan zadnjih deset godina.... Gotovo idealno prava linija... Sa i bez Trampa ( ili za drugu stranu - sa i bez Obame) i njihovih revolucionarnih ekonomskih zahvata. Expand Pomenula sam samo da cinjenice stoje da je ekonomija bila odlicna i napredna za 3 godine Trampove administracije. Isto kao sto sam rekla da niko od ekonomista to ne dovodi u pitanje, iako oni koji su protiv Trampa tvrde da to nije njegova zasluga. Zasto to ne stoji, je delimicno Denis objasnio poprilicno dobro, iako ti se ne svidja njegov stil. Taj argument koji ti koristis je recimo slicno koriscen za smanjenje nezaposlenosti - kao nije dovoljno opala a da svi svesno znaju da na odredjenom nivou, nezaposlenost sporije i sporije opada, iako je bila rekordno niska pre pandemije.
Yoyogi Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 Opčinjenost Trampom dolazi iz istog mentalnog sklopa kao opčinjenost Vučićem. Lažu, glume, a znaju da oni kojima se obraćaju u njih gledaju kao Kolinda. 2
Down With The Sickness Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 10:21 PM, Baby said: Expand Priceless ...... staviti "misljenje" porodicnog prijatelja Clintonovih i Bilovog glavnog ekonomskog savetnika, fanatika globalnog lozenja kako nepristrasno ocenjuje Trumpovu ekonomiju i to tri puta, tri put bog pomaze. Ali, sto se nasra covek za medalju ...... ubaci Trumpu u krilo i potpuno razvijenu opioid krizu za vreme Obame , pa ce i deca jesti vise secera zbog Trumpa. Ne valja da ljudi imaju vise para kupovace vise droge i slatkisa. Bolje im je da imaju manje ali da spasimo planetu. Mislim ........ ovako odane ni aleksandar vucic nema.
Angelia Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 10:21 PM, Baby said: Pa ja ne znam kako da definisem taj fan stav prema politicarima. Meni je to fantasticno debilno da se bilo koji politicar toliko hvali kao sto se ovde hvali Tramp. Ni jedan ne zasluzuje toliku hvalu, a posebno ne neki koji demontira sistem (ne mogu da vrtim na ovu konstataciju ponovo, imas snimak stranu dve ispred i tvrdnje nekog ko je radio u njegovoj administraciji, a nije jedini). Expand Sad projektujes, to sto ja tebi kazem da gresis, nije indikacija da sam ja Trampov fan, nego da ti toliko mrzis nekoga da ne vidis cinjenice. Uporno dozvoljavas da te ta mrznja zaslepi. i meni stvarno to nije jasno. Ja sa druge strane nemam ama nikakva osecanja prema Trampu. Interesuje me samo kako je meni (i vecini gradjana) u toj administraciji. Neko mi je nedavno rekao da je najbolja situacija za USA bila kada bi predsednik bio demokrata a senat i kongres, republikanski. Inace covek imao odlicne argumente za to. Ali nakon sto su Dems ovako zloupotrebili kongres videcemo da li je to opet moguce. 10 minutes ago, Baby said: Evo, nece me mrzeti da po treci put stavim tekst nekog cije misljenje za moj pojam je mnogo validnije nego od samohvale Trampove administracije: Reveal hidden contents Renowned economist Professor Joseph Stiglitz argues Donald Trump might have been a good president for the top 1 percent but has not been so for everyone else. As the world’s business elites trek to Davos for their annual gathering, people should be asking a simple question: Have they overcome their infatuation with US President Donald Trump? Two years ago, a few rare corporate leaders were concerned about climate change, or upset at Trump’s misogyny and bigotry. Most, however, were celebrating the president’s tax cuts for billionaires and corporations and looking forward to his efforts to deregulate the economy. That would allow businesses to pollute the air more, get more Americans hooked on opioids, entice more children to eat their diabetes-inducing foods, and engage in the sort of financial shenanigans that brought on the 2008 crisis. Today, many corporate bosses are still talking about the continued GDP growth and record stock prices. But neither GDP nor the Dow is a good measure of economic performance. Neither tells us what’s happening to ordinary citizens’ living standards or anything about sustainability. In fact, US economic performance over the past four years is Exhibit A in the indictment against relying on these indicators. To get a good reading on a country’s economic health, start by looking at the health of its citizens. If they are happy and prosperous, they will be healthy and live longer. Among developed countries, America sits at the bottom in this regard. US life expectancy, already relatively low, fell in each of the first two years of Trump’s presidency, and in 2017, midlife mortality reached its highest rate since World War II. This is not a surprise, because no president has worked harder to make sure that more Americans lack health insurance. Millions have lost their coverage, and the uninsured rate has risen, in just two years, from 10.9 percent to 13.7 percent. One reason for declining life expectancy in America is what Anne Case and Nobel laureate economist Angus Deaton call deaths of despair, caused by alcohol, drug overdoses, and suicide. In 2017 (the most recent year for which good data are available), such deaths stood at almost four times their 1999 level. The only time I have seen anything like these declines in health – outside of war or epidemics – was when I was chief economist of the World Bank and found out that mortality and morbidity data confirmed what our economic indicators suggested about the dismal state of the post-Soviet Russian economy. Trump may be a good president for the top 1 percent – and especially for the top 0.1 percent – but he has not been good for everyone else. If fully implemented, the 2017 tax cut will result in tax increases for most households in the second, third, and fourth income quintiles. Given tax cuts that disproportionately benefit the ultrarich and corporations, it should come as no surprise that there was no significant change in the median US household’s disposable income between 2017 and 2018 (again, the most recent year with good data). The lion’s share of the increase in GDP is also going to those at the top. Real median weekly earnings are just 2.6 percent above their level when Trump took office. And these increases have not offset long periods of wage stagnation. For example, the median wage of a full-time male worker (and those with full-time jobs are the lucky ones) is still more than 3% percent below what it was 40 years ago. Nor has there been much progress on reducing racial disparities: in the third quarter of 2019, median weekly earnings for black men working full-time were less than three-quarters the level for white men. Making matters worse, the growth that has occurred is not environmentally sustainable – and even less so thanks to the Trump administration’s gutting of regulations that have passed stringent cost-benefit analyses. The air will be less breathable, the water less drinkable, and the planet more subject to climate change. In fact, losses related to climate change have already reached new highs in the US, which has suffered more property damage than any other country – reaching some 1.5 percent of GDP in 2017. The tax cuts were supposed to spur a new wave of investment. Instead, they triggered an all-time record binge of share buybacks – some $US800 billion in 2018 – by some of America’s most profitable companies, and led to record peacetime deficits (almost $1 trillion in fiscal 2019) in a country supposedly near full employment. And even with weak investment, the US had to borrow massively abroad: the most recent data show foreign borrowing at nearly $500 billion a year, with an increase of more than 10 percent in America’s net indebtedness position in one year alone. Likewise, Trump’s trade wars, for all their sound and fury, have not reduced the US trade deficit, which was one-quarter higher in 2018 than it was in 2016. The 2018 goods deficit was the largest on record. Even the deficit in trade with China was up almost a quarter from 2016. The US did get a new North American trade agreement, without the investment agreement provisions that the Business Roundtable wanted, without the provisions raising drug prices that the pharmaceutical companies wanted, and with better labour and environmental provisions. Trump, a self-proclaimed master deal maker, lost on almost every front in his negotiations with congressional Democrats, resulting in a slightly improved trade arrangement. And despite Trump’s vaunted promises to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, the increase in manufacturing employment is still lower than it was under his predecessor, Barack Obama, once the post-2008 recovery set in, and is still markedly below its pre-crisis level. Even the unemployment rate, at a 50-year low, masks economic fragility. The employment rate for working-age males and females, while rising, has increased less than during the Obama recovery, and is still significantly below that of other developed countries. The pace of job creation is also markedly slower than it was under Obama. Again, the low employment rate is not a surprise, not least because unhealthy people can’t work. Moreover, those on disability benefits, in prison – the US incarceration rate has increased more than sixfold since 1970, with some two million people currently behind bars – or so discouraged that they are not actively seeking jobs are not counted as “unemployed.” But, of course, they are not employed. Nor is it a surprise that a country that doesn’t provide affordable childcare or guarantee family leave would have lower female employment – adjusted for population, more than 10 percentage points lower – than other developed countries. Even judging by GDP, the Trump economy falls short. Last quarter’s growth was just 2.1 percent, far less than the 4, 5, or even 6 percent Trump promised to deliver, and even less than the 2.4 percent average of Obama’s second term. That is a remarkably poor performance considering the stimulus provided by the $1 trillion deficit and ultra-low interest rates. This is not an accident, or just a matter of bad luck: Trump’s brand is uncertainty, volatility, and prevarication, whereas trust, stability, and confidence are essential for growth. So is equality, according to the International Monetary Fund. So, Trump deserves failing grades not just on essential tasks like upholding democracy and preserving our planet. He should not get a pass on the economy, either. Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics, is University Professor at Columbia University and Chief Economist at the Roosevelt Institute. His most recent book is People, Power, and Profits: Progressive Capitalism for an Age of Discontent. Expand Izvini uz svo duzno postovanje za njegov CV, neko ko propagira rusenje USA sistema da bi se napravio lepsi i bolji, po prinicpu preraspodele kapitala, kod mene automatski izgubi peone na vrednost njegovog misljenja.
Darko Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 2:11 PM, Angelia said: Uzrok samog protesta je politika, iliti za neke revolucija, oboriti sistem. Sve ostalo je prica za malu decu. Expand Slažem se da su protesti eskalirali u nešto drugo, ali valjda je jasno kako su počeli. Ako stvarno misliš da policija isto tretira crnce i belce onda stvarno ne znam šta vise da kažem.
Angelia Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 10:47 PM, Darko said: Slažem se da su protesti eskalirali u nešto drugo, ali valjda je jasno kako su počeli. Ako stvarno misliš da policija isto tretira crnce i belce onda stvarno ne znam šta vise da kažem. Expand Ne tretira ih isto, sto nema veze sa rasizmom, nego sa visom stopom kriminala u AA zajednici. Tretira isto kriminalce bez obzira na boju koze. I sve dok se stvarni problemi kriju iza "sistemskog rasizma" nece ni biti resavani. Mogao si da vidis iz dosadasnjih dogadjaja, da najbolji nacin da te policija upuca je da se opires hapsenju, znaci ako krsis zakon, mozes da nastradas. Valjda je jednostavnije resenje ne opirati se hapsenju?
ters Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 10:31 PM, Angelia said: Pa evo nasla ti ja grafikone da se ne mucis, koji dokazuju rast radnih mesta u proizvodnji. Odradili oni i analizu da ja i ti ne moramo da se raspravljamo Znaci dokazuju da ti nisi u pravu Pomenula sam samo da cinjenice stoje da je ekonomija bila odlicna i napredna za 3 godine Trampove administracije. Isto kao sto sam rekla da niko od ekonomista to ne dovodi u pitanje, iako oni koji su protiv Trampa tvrde da to nije njegova zasluga. Zasto to ne stoji, je delimicno Denis objasnio poprilicno dobro, iako ti se ne svidja njegov stil. Taj argument koji ti koristis je recimo slicno koriscen za smanjenje nezaposlenosti - kao nije dovoljno opala a da svi svesno znaju da na odredjenom nivou, nezaposlenost sporije i sporije opada, iako je bila rekordno niska pre pandemije. Expand Ekonomija je jednostavno nastavila svoj trend i bila je dobra - ne samo za 3 godine Trampove administracije, nego za posljednjih 10, 25 i 50 godina...Rast je neophodan za trzisnu ekonomiju, povremeno se desava korekcija ("kriza") i idemo dalje. Njemacka, Francuska, Kanada su imale slican rast zaposlenosti (da ne cjepidlacim - cak i brzi negp USA od 2015 do 2020) - a jedina zasluga Makrona, Merkelove i Trudoa, je to sto su odrzali stabilnost u zemlji, i vladavinu zakona i pored izazova koje su imali (pogotovo Francuska). Zasto sam protiv Trampa? Zato sto mislim da urusava vladavinu zakona. On moze biti samo jedna od dvije stvari- politicar sa zlim namjerama da zemlju baci u haos (i uspjesan je u tome) ili politicar sa super dobrim namjerama ali svojim akcijama vodi zemlju u haos (dakle nesposoban je). Sa Denisom nije u pitanju razlika u stilu - nego u nivou. Smijesno i tuzno u isto vrijeme da mi "federal employee" koji je na vlast doveo jednog promasenog politicara, objasnjava bilo sta... Sad kao jasno vidi da je Trump pravo rjesenje za USA :) 2
Darko Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 11:01 PM, Angelia said: Ne tretira ih isto, sto nema veze sa rasizmom Expand Vala baš nema. Inače, slažem se da ima problema sa AA bandama itd, ali simplifikuješ stvari.
𝓑𝓪𝓫𝔂 Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 10:41 PM, Angelia said: Izvini uz svo duzno postovanje za njegov CV, neko ko propagira rusenje USA sistema da bi se napravio lepsi i bolji, po prinicpu preraspodele kapitala, kod mene automatski izgubi peone na vrednost njegovog misljenja. Expand Vidis, ti i ja razlicito gledamo na rusenje. Za tebe je zgrada rusenje, izlog rusenje... i u pravu si. Za mene je urusavanje sistema rusenje jedne drzave, a ti si to do sada sve opravdala u stilu po zakonu je iako neki iz administracije tvrde suporotno. Sada, druga je stvar ako tebi takvo urusavanje odgovara iz nekih razoga... u to ne ulazim. Meni licno uzasno smeta.
Angelia Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 11:16 PM, ters said: Ekonomija je jednostavno nastavila svoj trend i bila je dobra - ne samo za 3 godine Trampove administracije, nego za posljednjih 10, 25 i 50 godina... Expand E jbga sad ti se vise ni moj stil nece dopasti. Vidi ovako ja bi tu teoriju patentirala, zamisli koliko para i vremena bismo ustedeli da samo pustimo ekonomiju da raste tako sama od sebe, cemu toliki strucnjaci, pa racunaju dal da povecaju cenu kapitala, pa koje strategije da promene da unaprede ekonomiju, pa politicari sa programima i investicijama i budzetom...i sve to za dzabe. Ekonomija bi jednostavno nastavila svoj trend rasta. Odavno nisam cula ovako odlicnu "dzaba ste krecili" On 8/29/2020 at 12:06 AM, Darko said: Vala baš nema. Inače, slažem se da ima problema sa AA bandama itd, ali simplifikuješ stvari. Expand Naravno da simplifikujem - tu raspravu smo imali vec na ovom topiku u detalje, pa me mrzi da prezvakavamo sve to.
Down With The Sickness Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) On 8/28/2020 at 11:16 PM, ters said: 1. Ekonomija je jednostavno nastavila svoj trend i bila je dobra - ne samo za 3 godine Trampove administracije, nego za posljednjih 10, 25 i 50 godina... 2. Zasto sam protiv Trampa? Zato sto mislim da urusava vladavinu zakona. Expand Ne videh jos ovoliko lupetanja u jednom postu. Ekonomiju cemo ukinuti, ne treba nam, ona ce ionako rasti, kako je rasla od Dzizs Krajsta, a bogami i pre njega, tako ce rasti i ubuduce. Kogod zajase tu ekonomsku kobilu bice dobro, kobila ce nastaviti trend. Uostalom, Hussein Obama je prorocki rekao "Zaboravite proizvodnju, toga vise nece biti, cuvajte mi bratstvo i jedinstvo, k'o zenicu oka svoga". 2. Makron je odoleo izazovima. Odro gradjane porezima ko mlade majmune, izveo 4,5 miliona policajaca na ulice Pariza i godinu dana ih onda drao od teskih batina. Pita me dete jel ovo tata Palestina ...... nije sine, Francuska. Trump izvede malo federalne policije da zastite od anarhista imovinu, da spreci nevidjeno pljackanje, ni Rusi nisu tako Berlin pustosili, da zastiti gradjane od majmuna, da spreci podmetanje pozara, ubistva, nasilne pokusaje rusenja vlasti 2 meseca pred izbore ....... policija uglavnom gleda kako da sacuva zivu glavu, poneki put udari u samoodbrani ........ nije odoleo iskusenjima uvodi diktaturu, urusava vladavinu zakona. U isto vreme demokratska partija nije izdala samo naredjenje "Sad mozete da pocnete sa ubijanjem", do sada su im rekli da pljackaju, ruse, kradu, premlacuju ......... naredjenje za ubistva su izgleda ostavili za izbornu noc ...... zbog izborne prevare. On 8/29/2020 at 12:06 AM, Darko said: Vala baš nema. Inače, slažem se da ima problema sa AA bandama itd, ali simplifikuješ stvari. Expand Velike im te bande, mnogo zaposlenih. Ona mozda simplifikuje, ali ga ti komplikujes ko CNN. Edited August 29, 2020 by Down With The Sickness 1
Down With The Sickness Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) On 8/29/2020 at 12:49 AM, Angelia said: Vidi ovako ja bi tu teoriju patentirala, zamisli koliko para i vremena bismo ustedeli da samo pustimo ekonomiju da raste tako sama od sebe, cemu toliki strucnjaci, pa racunaju dal da povecaju cenu kapitala, pa koje strategije da promene da unaprede ekonomiju, pa politicari sa programima i investicijama i budzetom...i sve to za dzabe. Ekonomija bi jednostavno nastavila svoj trend rasta. Odavno nisam cula ovako odlicnu "dzaba ste krecili" Expand Kakav bre patent to je za zanatlije, ovo je world class breakthrough scientific discovery, senzacionalna ekonomska teorija relativiteta ...... ..... ekonomija ce vazda ici uzbrdo, mo's je jebat' ona stati nece! Edited August 29, 2020 by Down With The Sickness
Angelia Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 8:09 AM, Klotzen said: Postoji cela rekonstrukcija događaja jer je tužioc već podigao tužbu. Onaj prvi kog je ubio ga je gađao plastičnom kesom i promašio. Tako da Takerove priče o heroju padaju u vodu. Na nekim medijima se spominje još jedan iz te neke "garde kenoše" koji je prvi pucao na BLM i koji je i izazvao haos na ulici ali se taj ne spominje u tužbi tako da je moguće da je to i izmišljotina, videćemo šta će istraga otkriti do kraja. Da stvar bude gora izgleda da je on bio u kontaktu sa policijom i pre ubistava i policija ga nije ni legitimisala niti im je bilo sumnjivo što nosi automatsku pušku na leđima. Biće interesantno čuti i tog policajca šta mu je bilo na pameti dok je pričao sa "herojom" sa Fox News-a. Nažalost to ludilo će Trampova ekipa da podgreva sve do izbora jer bolje o ovome da se priča, nego o koroni i ekonomiji. Ovde bar mogu da se brane lažima o komunistima i pljačkašima a na drugim temama nemaju ama baš ni jednu reč da kažu u svoju odbranu, čak ni laži im tamo ne mogu pomoći. Expand Postoji rekonstrukcija i gresis: The very beginning of the situation is not on video that I am aware, but the complaint against Rittenhouse contains some key details from Richard McGinnis, a Daily Caller reporter who was interviewing Rittenhouse at the time: McGinnis said that as they were walking south another armed male who appeared to be in his 30s joined them and said he was there to protect the defendant. McGinnis stated that before the defendant reached the parking lot and ran across it, the defendant had moved from the middle of Sheridan Road to the sidewalk and that is when McGinnis saw a male ([Joseph] Rosenbaum) initially try to engage the defendant. McGinnis stated that as the defendant was walking Rosenbaum was trying to get closer to the defendant. When Rosenbaum advanced, the defendant did a “juke” move and started running. McGinnis stated that there were other people that were moving very quickly. McGinnis stated that they were moving towards the defendant. McGinnis said that according to what he saw the defendant was trying to evade these individuals. Pravnu analizu kakva je takva je, mozes da nadjes ovde sa ovim citatom: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/08/does-kyle-rittenhouse-have-a-self-defense-claim/ A unutra mozes naci i link za NYT clanak koji ima video napravljen od razlicitih snimaka, i u njima se vidi da neko puca pre nego sto klinac puca. Citat: While Mr. Rittenhouse is being pursued by the group, an unknown gunman fires into the air, though it’s unclear why. The weapon’s muzzle flash appears in footage filmed at the scene. Mr. Rittenhouse turns toward the sound of gunfire as another pursuer lunges toward him from the same direction. Mr. Rittenhouse then fires four times, and appears to shoot the man in the head. Uz to onaj treci ranjeni, u ruci drzi pistolj (mirni protestant). Postoje i sumnje da od onih "protestanata" koji su ga jurili pre prvog njegovog pucnja neki imaju oruzje. Znaci definitivno se vidi da on nije isprovocirao sukob, i da nije samo tako krenuo da puca, vec da je napadnut. Posto je istraga u toku, videcemo 1
ters Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) On 8/29/2020 at 12:49 AM, Angelia said: E jbga sad ti se vise ni moj stil nece dopasti. Vidi ovako ja bi tu teoriju patentirala, zamisli koliko para i vremena bismo ustedeli da samo pustimo ekonomiju da raste tako sama od sebe, cemu toliki strucnjaci, pa racunaju dal da povecaju cenu kapitala, pa koje strategije da promene da unaprede ekonomiju, pa politicari sa programima i investicijama i budzetom...i sve to za dzabe. Ekonomija bi jednostavno nastavila svoj trend rasta. Odavno nisam cula ovako odlicnu "dzaba ste krecili" Naravno da simplifikujem - tu raspravu smo imali vec na ovom topiku u detalje, pa me mrzi da prezvakavamo sve to. Expand Rado bih patentirao otkrice, ali se opste poznate cinjenice ne mogu patentirati... Glavni faktor ekonomskog rasta je vec desetinama i stotinama godina tehnoloski razvoj - koji u razvijenim zemljama omogucava da GDP raste 1.8-2% brze od prostog rasta stanovnistva a prosti rast stanovnistva je u USA uzrok za 0.5-0.7% rasta ekonomije. Mjera rasta GDP iznad prostog rasta stanovnistva je GDP per capita rate growth....Ukupno, tehnologija i rast stanovnistva su uzrok za 2.3-2.7% godisnjeg rasta ekonomije u USA - upravo gdje su i Obama i Trump bili u prosjeku... I ne samo njih dvojica, nego i svi predsjednici prije njih koji se nisu nasli u situaciji slicnoj koroni - svjetska recesija 1930-tih ili svjetski ratovi. Dakle svaki americki predsjednik od 1873-te godine (tokom 150 godina) je vodio USA do prosjecne stopu godisnjeg rasta GDP per capita od 1.83% (dakle za koliko je GDP iznad prostog rasta stanovnistva). Ali Trump trci drugi krug bas tom brzinom i treba sto glasnije pljeskati, pa se valjda i tih akumuliranih 145 godina i 30 predsjednika prije njega treba zanemariti. A evo i linka izvora, i dijagrama... Mozda i ce i onaj kanadski federalni Cliff Clavin nesto nauciti. It is remarkable how steady economic growth was over this very long period. From 1870 to 2016 GDP per person in the U.S. economy has grown on average at 1.83 percent per year with only very short deviations from this very steady trend. (https://ourworldindata.org/economic-growth) . U medjuvremenu, nadjoh i ovu tabelu koja ilustruje svjetski rast GDP-a (dakle ukljucujuci i drzave koje vode politicari od kalibra Dzaferovic, Dodik i Komsic, Vucic, Maduro, Kastro, Kim Jong Un, Lukasenko, Asad.... I sa svima njima ekonomija u svjetskom prosjeku i dalje raste li raste i to istim tempom kao i kod uspjesnog Trampa... Trenutno smo na tom stepenu tehnoloskog razvoja koji nam dozvoljava 2-3% rasta Edited August 29, 2020 by ters 1
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