Bliski Istok

[Angelia]

42 minutes ago, erwin said:

Jeste, hamasovci nemaju preča posla nego da čekaju UN-ovo osoblje da im predaju taoce i oružje i otprate ih do izraelskog zatvora ako ih trigger-happy izraelski vojnici ne postreljaju pri predaji kao onu trojicu nesrećnih jevrejskih talaca, toliko je to prosto.

 

Ovde neki uporno žmure nad vrlo očiglednom činjenicom da je moguće olakšati položaj palestinskih civila (npr. otvaranjem onog prelaza većeg kapaciteta preko koga se pomoć dostavljala do ovog rata, omogućavanjem civilima da uz trijažu pređu na očišćenu teritoriju na kojoj će im se garantovati bezbednost i omogućiti uspostavljanje osnovne infrastrukture - struje i vode uz dostavu adekvatne količine humanitarne pomoći), a da se nimalo ili zanemarljivo malo ugrozi borba protiv Hamasa.

Obrati se Egiptu koji je odbio prelazak civila kod njih. Hamasovci nemaju preca posla, pa ok. Imali su preca posla kad su ubijali I silovali u Izraelu. A oni stite taoce da ih trigger happy izraelska vojska ne ubije...

Kao sto rekoh, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

Ispada da je Izrael odgovoran za to sto su hamasovci uradili, izrael treba da se brine o civilima... da nisi mozda propustio, a pratis na svim drustvenim mrezama, intervju sa devojkom koja je bila oteta, Mia. Sta kaze? Civili su je drzali u zarobljenistvu. 

Neznam ko ovde zmuri na cinjenice, da ni UN niti vecina civila u Gazi, ne zeli da Hamas odgovara za zlocine. 

Nije IDF uleteo u Gazu, da masakrira civile. Bukvalno 6og oktobra izraelu nije padalo na pamet da se bavi Gazom. 

[erwin]

41 minutes ago, Angelia said:

izrael treba da se brine o civilima...

 

Tako je, Izrael je okupator.

 

__________________________________________

 

Quote

The Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday that 70% of all Gaza homes and about half of all its buildings have been either damaged or destroyed due to Israeli airstrikes during its war with the Hamas terror organization.
The report states that Gaza contained about 439 thousand homes. (...)
Buildings destroyed, the WSJ claims, include "Byzantine churches and ancient mosques, factories and apartment buildings, shopping malls and luxury hotels, theaters and schools." Furthermore, the infrastructure used for water, healthcare, electricity, and healthcare is "beyond repair."
The WSJ's extensive report also mentioned the health services in the Gaza Strip and claimed that most of the hospitals in the Gaza Strip are closed, with only 8 out of 36 hospitals receiving patients. It also stated that more than two-thirds of the schools in Gaza were damaged, and many orchards, greenhouses, and agricultural areas were "completely wiped out."

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-780086

 

U tom članku još piše da je sever Gaze više uništen od Drezdena 1945.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by erwin

[Angelia]

40 minutes ago, erwin said:

 

Tako je, Izrael je okupator.

 

__________________________________________

 

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-780086

 

U tom članku još piše da je sever Gaze više uništen od Drezdena 1945.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Sorry, ali...Izrael je u ratu. Sa zvanicno vladajucim telom u Gazi. U ratu postoje dve strane. Izrael ne okupira Gazu od 2005te. Izrael ne vlada Gazom. 

 

To da kazes za WB, pa da te donekle razumem. 

 

Jesu li Japan ili Nemacka, bili oslobodjeni odgovornosti za svoje civile '45te? Ili je bilo puj-pike ne vazi sta smo radili, posto pobedjujete civili su vasa odgovornost? 

[erwin]

Izrael je ratni okupator palestinskih teritorija već decenijama.

 

To što se tebi ne sviđa što ga UN i najrelevantnije međunarodne organizacije smatraju okupatorom na svim teritorijama koje okupira direktnim vojnim prisustvom ili ih drži pod blokadom i u njih upada po nahođenju, ne znači da nije tako.

Edited December 30, 2023 by erwin

[MeanMachine]

4 hours ago, Angelia said:

Sorry, ali...Izrael je u ratu. Sa zvanicno vladajucim telom u Gazi. U ratu postoje dve strane. Izrael ne okupira Gazu od 2005te. Izrael ne vlada Gazom. 

 

To da kazes za WB, pa da te donekle razumem. 

 

Jesu li Japan ili Nemacka, bili oslobodjeni odgovornosti za svoje civile '45te? Ili je bilo puj-pike ne vazi sta smo radili, posto pobedjujete civili su vasa odgovornost? 

 

2023 uskoro 2024 a ne 1945. Sorry.

Edited December 30, 2023 by MeanMachine

[Angelia]

3 hours ago, erwin said:

Izrael je ratni okupator palestinskih teritorija već decenijama.

 

To što se tebi ne sviđa što ga UN i najrelevantnije međunarodne organizacije smatraju okupatorom na svim teritorijama koje okupira direktnim vojnim prisustvom ili ih drži pod blokadom i u njih upada po nahođenju, ne znači da nije tako.

Na stranu sto je Izrael Gazu zauzeo od Egipta, a WB od Jordana....ali po nahodjenju?

 

Nicim isprovocirano bombardovanje fazon? 

I Hamas kaze da su civili odgovornost UN, jel UN za ove godine ucinili nesto da "oslobode" civile od terozma? Ne, ali su kroz UNRWA lepo finansirali teroriste. Tako da je bilo kakvo njihovo misljenje o ovoj temi, nebitno.

 

22 minutes ago, MeanMachine said:

 

2023 uskoro 2024 a ne 1945. Sorry.

Kakve to veze ima sa bilo cime? Svaka vlast ima odgovornost prema svojim civilima, ako zapocinje konflikt. Ne mozes da optuzujes zrtvu. To je valjda jasno u 2024.

[Dragan]

Gde se Židovi i Arapi mirno udružuju

 

Ostrvo zajedništva usred mora besa i straha: U osnovnoj školi Hagar u Be'er Ševi na jugu Izraela, jevrejska i arapska deca uče ono što se čini nemogućim na drugim mestima.

Odmah iza ulaza u školsku zgradu postavili su kartonsku kutiju, na njemu su ispisane dve izraelske zastave, a oko nje leži nekoliko fotografija. "Mi to zovemo kutkom empatije", kaže Avital Benšalom. Svaki učenik može da baci pismo u kutiju o svemu što im gori na umu. "Pišu pisma vojnicima ili porodicama u Gazi."

Ovde se bacaju poruke podrške za ljude sa obe strane fronta: za pripadnike izraelske vojske koji se bore protiv Hamasa od terorističkog napada u pojasu Gaze 7. oktobra; i za palestinske civile, za koje je ovaj rat, koji se vodi već skoro tri meseca, katastrofa. To je rat u kome se ljudi sa obe strane povlače u bolu zbog sopstvene patnje, sopstvenih žrtava, u svoj ekskluzivni narativ. Šta se gubi u procesu: moć saosećanja za drugu stranu.

 

Spoiler

Jedina dvojezičnoj školi na jugu Izraela

U ovom moru besa i straha, Osnovna škola Hagar u Be'er Ševi izgleda kao malo ostrvo. Ostrvo gde je, usred rata, poruka mira još uvek oslikana na zidovima, trilingvska na hebrejskom, arapskom i engleskom: Šalom, Salam, Mir. Od obdaništa do šestog razreda ovde se zajedno uči više od 300 jevrejske i arapske dece. Uče zajedno, igraju se zajedno, to je uzoran projekat za miran suživot.

Ali i ovde, sve ovo je stavljeno na probu od 7. "Ovde smo iskusili mnoge krize i ratove", kaže Avital Benšalom, direktor škole. "Ali ovog puta je teže nego ikad."

Pre skoro 15 godina, Hagar školu su osnovali jevrejski i arapski roditelji koji su udružili snage sa mirovnim aktivistima kako bi formirali nevladinu organizaciju. To je jedina dvojezično škola na jugu Izraela, gde mnogi Beduini žive oko Be'er Ševe u pustinji Negev. Postoji samo osam takvih mešovitih škola u celoj jevrejskoj državi, gde 20 posto stanovništva imaju Arapski Izraelci. U svim drugim školama postoji stroga razlika između jevrejskog i arapskog porekla. "Obrazovni sistem u Izraelu dizajniran je za segregaciju", kaže Avital Benšalom. "To onda proizvodi ono što vidimo svuda okolo u društvu."

 

Život u paralelnim svetovima

To zna iz sopstvenog iskustva, iz sopstvenih љkolskih dana u Jerusalimu. "Ranije nisam imala priliku da stisnem arapske prijatelje", kaže ona. Život u paralelnim svetovima se promoviše, u najgorem slučaju na jednoj od dve strane istog fronta. Ali u Hagar školi, koju Benšalom vodi već sedam godina, fokus je na zajedništvu.

"Isto obrazovanje za sve, i svako može da uči jedni od drugih" je osnova, vizija. U verskom obrazovanju, na primer, učenici uče šta su sinagoge, džamije i crkve, a sva tri mesta bogosluženja se posle toga posećuju zajedno. "Najbolja stvar je da je to normalnost za decu", kaže ona. "Oni čak i ne znaju da je to nešto posebno."

Kada vodi kroz školu, možete videti decu u malim učionicama kako zajedno poručujete o matematičkim problemima na klupama dvoje dece. Šest sati nedeljno hebrejskog i šest sati arapskog. Predmete koji se bave kulturom, religijom ili istorijom uvek zajedno uče dva nastavnika, jedan jevrejski i jedan arapski.

 

Sklonište je takođe biblioteka

Umesto intervalnog zvona, pesma se oglašavačima oglašavačima, u kojima je refren, šta drugo, o miru. Učenici žure napolje, na asfaltirano igralište ili na sportski teren da igraju fudbal. Dečaci i devojčice u jednom timu, jevrejska i arapska deca, mešali su se bez napora. Srećni su što su ponovo ovde, zajedno, jer je posle 7. oktobra škola bila zatvorena tri nedelje.

"Zbog raketne opasnosti", objašnjava reditelj. Postoji sklonište koje se takođe koristi kao biblioteka. Iza čeličnih vrata, udobno je namešten sa drvenim podom i razigranim brodskim lukom. Ali u prvim danima rata bilo je prečesto uzbune, Be'er Ševa je skoro grad na prvoj liniji fronta. Dok vrana leti, to je samo 40 kilometara do Gaze.

 

Šok paraliza i pritisak da se opravdaju

Pre nego što su časovi ponovo počeli, nastavno osoblje je selo. "Bio je to težak sastanak", kaže Avital Benšalom. Jevrejski deo radne snage je ćutao skoro sve vreme, dok su arapske kolege govorile i osudile masakr hamasa. Neki su u stanju šoka, drugi su nenamerno pod pritiskom da se opravdaju. "Sve što su rekli nekako nije bilo dovoljno – i to ih je nateralo da osete da su njihova odanost i moral u pitanju", kaže reditelj.

Prvi put u istoriji škole bilo je odvojenih sastanaka posle toga. Usledili su razgovori u malim grupama, zbližavanje sa ratom i užas u Gazi kao stalni remetilački požar. "Još uvek nam je dug put", kaže ona. Možda bi učenici mogli da pomognu u orijentaciji. "Svaki put kada bi se vratili u školu posle rata, bili smo iznenađeni koliko su to dobro podneli i da su samo želeli da budu zajedno."

 

Konflikt u učionici nije isključen

U učionici sukob na Bliskom istoku nije isključen, ali se tretira drugačije nego inače u izraelskim školama – ne kao sukcesija ratova, već sa fokusom na pozitivne, na mirovne sporazume ili primerne lične odnose. "Pokušavamo da prenesemo priču o zajedničkosti, a učenici uče da na to možete da gledate iz različitih uglova", kaže Avital Benšalom. "Cilj nije da se kaže ko je u pravu, nego da se pobudi razumevanje za drugu stranu."

Na taj način deca Osnovne škole Hagar odrastaju do kraja šestog razreda, onda moraju da idu u srednje škole. Nije retkost da deca brzo naiđu na drugu stvarnost. Avital Benšalom priča priču o jednom od njenih učenika koji se sudario sa njom prvog dana sedmog razreda. Od je zatraženo da naslika sliku i izabrala je motiv golubice mira sa dve zastave u kljunu: jednim Izraelca i jednim Palestinca. "Poslata je upravniku, a njeni roditelji su pozvani."

Avital Benšalom bi želeo da otvori hagar srednju školu koja prati decu do kraja školskih godina, negde u budućnosti. Međutim, iznad svega, ona želi da prenese poruku škole u društvo uprkos svim trenutnim nedaćama. "Rad ovde mi daje nadu i drži me optimističnom", kaže ona. "Međutim, potrebno nam je mnogo više dijaloga. Ovaj rat od 7. oktobra pokazuje nam da moramo da pronađemo načine da živimo zajedno – u Izraelu i sa našim palestinskim susedima."

 

 

[A sad]

17 hours ago, erwin said:

 

Tako je, Izrael je okupator.

 

__________________________________________

 

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-780086

 

U tom članku još piše da je sever Gaze više uništen od Drezdena 1945.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

Sjajan tekst. Dosao sam do toga kako su u Gazi unistene vizantijske crkve. Dalje nema potrebe da se cita, to je dovoljno... 

[erwin]

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/restored-5th-century-byzantine-church-reopens-in-gaza/

[Selina]

1 hour ago, A sad said:

 

Sjajan tekst. Dosao sam do toga kako su u Gazi unistene vizantijske crkve. Dalje nema potrebe da se cita, to je dovoljno... 

Meni je ovo bilo dovoljno:

 

 

 

Gaza’s tourism ministry 

13 hours ago, Dragan said:

Gde se Židovi i Arapi mirno udružuju

 

Ostrvo zajedništva usred mora besa i straha: U osnovnoj školi Hagar u Be'er Ševi na jugu Izraela, jevrejska i arapska deca uče ono što se čini nemogućim na drugim mestima.

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Jedina dvojezičnoj školi na jugu Izraela

U ovom moru besa i straha, Osnovna škola Hagar u Be'er Ševi izgleda kao malo ostrvo. Ostrvo gde je, usred rata, poruka mira još uvek oslikana na zidovima, trilingvska na hebrejskom, arapskom i engleskom: Šalom, Salam, Mir. Od obdaništa do šestog razreda ovde se zajedno uči više od 300 jevrejske i arapske dece. Uče zajedno, igraju se zajedno, to je uzoran projekat za miran suživot.

Ali i ovde, sve ovo je stavljeno na probu od 7. "Ovde smo iskusili mnoge krize i ratove", kaže Avital Benšalom, direktor škole. "Ali ovog puta je teže nego ikad."

Pre skoro 15 godina, Hagar školu su osnovali jevrejski i arapski roditelji koji su udružili snage sa mirovnim aktivistima kako bi formirali nevladinu organizaciju. To je jedina dvojezično škola na jugu Izraela, gde mnogi Beduini žive oko Be'er Ševe u pustinji Negev. Postoji samo osam takvih mešovitih škola u celoj jevrejskoj državi, gde 20 posto stanovništva imaju Arapski Izraelci. U svim drugim školama postoji stroga razlika između jevrejskog i arapskog porekla. "Obrazovni sistem u Izraelu dizajniran je za segregaciju", kaže Avital Benšalom. "To onda proizvodi ono što vidimo svuda okolo u društvu."

 

Život u paralelnim svetovima

To zna iz sopstvenog iskustva, iz sopstvenih љkolskih dana u Jerusalimu. "Ranije nisam imala priliku da stisnem arapske prijatelje", kaže ona. Život u paralelnim svetovima se promoviše, u najgorem slučaju na jednoj od dve strane istog fronta. Ali u Hagar školi, koju Benšalom vodi već sedam godina, fokus je na zajedništvu.

"Isto obrazovanje za sve, i svako može da uči jedni od drugih" je osnova, vizija. U verskom obrazovanju, na primer, učenici uče šta su sinagoge, džamije i crkve, a sva tri mesta bogosluženja se posle toga posećuju zajedno. "Najbolja stvar je da je to normalnost za decu", kaže ona. "Oni čak i ne znaju da je to nešto posebno."

Kada vodi kroz školu, možete videti decu u malim učionicama kako zajedno poručujete o matematičkim problemima na klupama dvoje dece. Šest sati nedeljno hebrejskog i šest sati arapskog. Predmete koji se bave kulturom, religijom ili istorijom uvek zajedno uče dva nastavnika, jedan jevrejski i jedan arapski.

 

Sklonište je takođe biblioteka

Umesto intervalnog zvona, pesma se oglašavačima oglašavačima, u kojima je refren, šta drugo, o miru. Učenici žure napolje, na asfaltirano igralište ili na sportski teren da igraju fudbal. Dečaci i devojčice u jednom timu, jevrejska i arapska deca, mešali su se bez napora. Srećni su što su ponovo ovde, zajedno, jer je posle 7. oktobra škola bila zatvorena tri nedelje.

"Zbog raketne opasnosti", objašnjava reditelj. Postoji sklonište koje se takođe koristi kao biblioteka. Iza čeličnih vrata, udobno je namešten sa drvenim podom i razigranim brodskim lukom. Ali u prvim danima rata bilo je prečesto uzbune, Be'er Ševa je skoro grad na prvoj liniji fronta. Dok vrana leti, to je samo 40 kilometara do Gaze.

 

Šok paraliza i pritisak da se opravdaju

Pre nego što su časovi ponovo počeli, nastavno osoblje je selo. "Bio je to težak sastanak", kaže Avital Benšalom. Jevrejski deo radne snage je ćutao skoro sve vreme, dok su arapske kolege govorile i osudile masakr hamasa. Neki su u stanju šoka, drugi su nenamerno pod pritiskom da se opravdaju. "Sve što su rekli nekako nije bilo dovoljno – i to ih je nateralo da osete da su njihova odanost i moral u pitanju", kaže reditelj.

Prvi put u istoriji škole bilo je odvojenih sastanaka posle toga. Usledili su razgovori u malim grupama, zbližavanje sa ratom i užas u Gazi kao stalni remetilački požar. "Još uvek nam je dug put", kaže ona. Možda bi učenici mogli da pomognu u orijentaciji. "Svaki put kada bi se vratili u školu posle rata, bili smo iznenađeni koliko su to dobro podneli i da su samo želeli da budu zajedno."

 

Konflikt u učionici nije isključen

U učionici sukob na Bliskom istoku nije isključen, ali se tretira drugačije nego inače u izraelskim školama – ne kao sukcesija ratova, već sa fokusom na pozitivne, na mirovne sporazume ili primerne lične odnose. "Pokušavamo da prenesemo priču o zajedničkosti, a učenici uče da na to možete da gledate iz različitih uglova", kaže Avital Benšalom. "Cilj nije da se kaže ko je u pravu, nego da se pobudi razumevanje za drugu stranu."

Na taj način deca Osnovne škole Hagar odrastaju do kraja šestog razreda, onda moraju da idu u srednje škole. Nije retkost da deca brzo naiđu na drugu stvarnost. Avital Benšalom priča priču o jednom od njenih učenika koji se sudario sa njom prvog dana sedmog razreda. Od je zatraženo da naslika sliku i izabrala je motiv golubice mira sa dve zastave u kljunu: jednim Izraelca i jednim Palestinca. "Poslata je upravniku, a njeni roditelji su pozvani."

Avital Benšalom bi želeo da otvori hagar srednju školu koja prati decu do kraja školskih godina, negde u budućnosti. Međutim, iznad svega, ona želi da prenese poruku škole u društvo uprkos svim trenutnim nedaćama. "Rad ovde mi daje nadu i drži me optimističnom", kaže ona. "Međutim, potrebno nam je mnogo više dijaloga. Ovaj rat od 7. oktobra pokazuje nam da moramo da pronađemo načine da živimo zajedno – u Izraelu i sa našim palestinskim susedima."

 

 

 A jel ima neki primar u Gazi gde ta zidovska ( zasto govoris i pises Zidov, to je na srpskom Jevrejin) i arapska deca

idu u istu skolu ili eventualno takvih skola u Gazi i nema?

[DameTime]

20 hours ago, Angelia said:

Bukvalno 6og oktobra izraelu nije padalo na pamet da se bavi Gazom. 

 

 Da, baš je tako. Mislim ne mogu da ti zabranim da veruješ u ovo, ali prosto nema veze sa istinom - činjenica je da Izrael već decenijama okupira Gazu i vrši represiju nad palestinskim narodom. Kako u pojasu Gaze, tako i na Zapadnoj Obali. 

 

Nego, dođoh ovde da podelim jedan apel za pomoć. Ko je u mogućnosti, bilo bi lepo da se pomogne.

 

Quote

BITNO! 11-ČLANOJ PORODICi IZ GAZE POTREBNA POMOĆ!

Pozivamo sve koji su u mogućnosti da doniraju hranu, odeću ili novac za 11-članu porodicu iz Gaze koja je nedavno stigla u Beograd i potrebna joj naša solidarnost da prebrode prve dane u Srbiji dok se ne snađu i ne priviknu.

Porodicu čini 5 dece, odnosno dečaci od: 2, 8 i 10 godina; i devojčice od 8 i 10 godina. Među šestoro odraslih je i jedna trudnica. Od odeće je prevashodno potrebna zimska ali je ostala dobrodošla, dok bi hrana trebalo da bude u konzervisana ili da može da potraje.

Hranu i odeću možete donete 3. i 4. januara na adresu Kraljevića Marka 4, Beograd (KC Magacin) između 17 i 20 časova.

Ukoliko želite da date novčane doancije, podaci su:

- broj računa: 205-0000000263391-77
- primalac: udruženje Za krov
- adresa: Uzun Mirkova 10/3, Beograd
- svrha: za porodicu iz Gaze

 

[McLeod]

Izrael ne okupira Gazu. Bar ne u poslednjih 18 godina, pustili su ih da upravljaju samima sobom i oni su napravili kvazi-drzavu gde je sve upregnuto za ostvarenje teroristickih ciljeva. Oganj i mac je ono sto jedino razumeju i to su dobili.

[Selina]

2 hours ago, DameTime said:

 

 Da, baš je tako. Mislim ne mogu da ti zabranim da veruješ u ovo, ali prosto nema veze sa istinom - činjenica je da Izrael već decenijama okupira Gazu i vrši represiju nad palestinskim narodom. Kako u pojasu Gaze, tako i na Zapadnoj Obali. 

 

Nego, dođoh ovde da podelim jedan apel za pomoć. Ko je u mogućnosti, bilo bi lepo da se pomogne.

 

 

Da li bi ti mogla da nam objasnis kada je i kako Izrael okupiaro Gazu? Mislim, stoji sve dijametralno suprotno od ove tvoje

tvrdnje. 

[Fat Zadd]

20 minutes ago, McLeod said:

Izrael ne okupira Gazu. Bar ne u poslednjih 18 godina, pustili su ih da upravljaju samima sobom i oni su napravili kvazi-drzavu gde je sve upregnuto za ostvarenje teroristickih ciljeva. Oganj i mac je ono sto jedino razumeju i to su dobili.

 

Da, oganj i mač posebno razume 4-5 000 stradale dece... a da, sta se dešavalo pre tih famoznih 18 godina je apsolutno nebitno.

 

25 minutes ago, Selina said:

Da li bi ti mogla da nam objasnis kada je i kako Izrael okupiaro Gazu? Mislim, stoji sve dijametralno suprotno od ove tvoje

tvrdnje. 

 

Da li si mozda nekada negde procitala za nasilno otimanje poljoprivrednog zemljišta Palestincima ( zemljišta koje im je bilo jedini izvor prihoda) da bi se izgradila zastitna ograda, (auto)putevi koji razdvajaju naselja koja naseljavaju palestinci od naselja sa jevrejskim doseljenicima, segregaciju...itd.

 

Hamas, i sve ostale teroristicke organizacije, moraju biti unistene,  ali ne na nacin gde strada 25 000 (ako su brojke tacne) nevinih civilnih  zrtava, i pri tome srusis polovinu grada.

 

[erwin]

Po 100. put, to da nije okupator od relevantnih međunarodnih faktora tvrde otprilike samo Izrael i SAD. Ostatak sveta ga i te kako već decenijama smatra okupatorom.

 

Quote

In contrast [to Israel's claims], many prominent international institutions, organizations and bodies—including the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the United Nations Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, UN General Assembly (UNGA), European Union (EU), African Union, International Criminal Court (ICC) (both Pre-Trial Chamber I and the Office of the Prosecutor), Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch—as well as international legal experts and other organizations, argue that Israel has occupied Palestinian territories including Gaza since 1967. While they acknowledge that Israel no longer had the traditional marker of effective control after the disengagement—a military presence—they hold that with the help of technology, it has maintained the requisite control in other ways.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/

 

Evo konkretno EU:

Quote

3.1 million people need humanitarian assistance in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (2.2 million in Gaza and 900,000 in the West Bank – UN/OCHA Flash Appeal – November 2023)

https://civil-protection-humanitarian-aid.ec.europa.eu/where/middle-east-and-northern-africa/palestine_en

 

Neko ko "nije okupator" ulazi na neku teritoriju kad god poželi da ubija i hapsi koga poželi i ruši šta poželi. Neko ko "nije okupator" raščišćava pogranični teren te teritorije na dubini koju je našao za shodnu uskraćujući ljudima mogućnost da žive od svog rada obrađujući sopstvenu zemlju i ubija ljude desetinama metara u dubini te teritorije kad se po njegovoj proceni previše približe granici. Neko ko "nije okupator" kontroliše vazdušne, vodene i kopnene puteve te teritorije određujući šta se sme, a šta ne sme uvoziti i izvoziti i sprečavajući razdvojene porodice da se spoje ili rođake da se međusobno posete ako jedni žive u Gazi, a drugi na Zapadnoj obali. Neko ko "nije okupator" ubire poreze od stanovnika te teritorije i odlučuje da li će ih isplatiti ili zadržati. Važi.

[A sad]

1 hour ago, erwin said:

Po 100. put, to da nije okupator od relevantnih međunarodnih faktora tvrde otprilike samo Izrael i SAD. Ostatak sveta ga i te kako već decenijama smatra okupatorom.

 

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/gaza-israel-occupied-international-law/

 

Evo konkretno EU:

https://civil-protection-humanitarian-aid.ec.europa.eu/where/middle-east-and-northern-africa/palestine_en

 

Neko ko "nije okupator" ulazi na neku teritoriju kad god poželi da ubija i hapsi koga poželi i ruši šta poželi. Neko ko "nije okupator" raščišćava pogranični teren te teritorije na dubini koju je našao za shodnu uskraćujući ljudima mogućnost da žive od svog rada obrađujući sopstvenu zemlju i ubija ljude desetinama metara u dubini te teritorije kad se po njegovoj proceni previše približe granici. Neko ko "nije okupator" kontroliše vazdušne, vodene i kopnene puteve te teritorije određujući šta se sme, a šta ne sme uvoziti i izvoziti i sprečavajući razdvojene porodice da se spoje ili rođake da se međusobno posete ako jedni žive u Gazi, a drugi na Zapadnoj obali. Neko ko "nije okupator" ubire poreze od stanovnika te teritorije i odlučuje da li će ih isplatiti ili zadržati. Važi.

 

Drzi se ti vizantijskih crkava u Gazi. Bolje ti to ide. 

[erwin]

Od humorističkog novogodišnjeg programa imamo Netanjahuovu izjavu da je Izrael pokazao "moralnost bez presedana" u svom ratu u Gazi.

 

Quote

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday said Israel displayed unparalleled "morality" in the Gaza war and rejected South Africa's charge that it was committing "genocidal" acts in the Palestinian territory.

https://www.barrons.com/news/netanyahu-defends-israel-s-unparalleled-morality-in-gaza-war-ddd445b8

 

I još malo izraelskih poziva na etničko čišćenje Palestinaca iz Gaze i naseljavanje Jevreja.

 

Quote

Israel should discuss the revival of civilian settlements within the Gaza Strip as part of its planning for the enclave once Hamas rule is toppled, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said Saturday night, while denying that any of Gaza’s approximately 2 million residents were innocent and calling for Israel to “encourage voluntary emigration” from the territory.

Speaking to Channel 12 news, the leader of the hard-right Religious Zionism party also doubled down on his refusal to transfer tax payments to the Palestinian Authority over concerns that the  money will find its way to Gaza, sloughing off reported pressure from the United States on the matter and pushing back against insinuations that he and others had propped up Hamas as a convenient foil.

“We will be in security control, and we will need there to be civil [control],” Smotrich said. “I’m for completely changing the reality in Gaza, having a conversation about settlements in the Gaza Strip… We’ll need to rule there for a long time… If we want to be there militarily, we need to be there in a civilian fashion.”

Under pressure from Smotrich, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Thursday canceled a scheduled war cabinet debate on shaping post-war Gaza, and said he would hold the discussion instead in the larger security cabinet. Smotrich is not a member of the tight-knit war cabinet, but he and fellow far-right leader Itamar Ben Gvir, minister of national security, do sit in the security cabinet.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-touts-revival-of-gaza-settlements-after-war-says-no-innocents-in-strip/

Edited December 31, 2023 by erwin

[Mama_mia]

Israel withdrew its military and settlers from Gaza in 2005 after a 38-year occupation, and Netanyahu has said it does not intend to maintain a permanent presence again, but that Israel would maintain security control for an indefinite period.

 

....bezbednosna kontrola - ovo kad cuju - a tek `na neodredjeno vreme` - pa tacno ce da spale planetu od besa. Mozda se opamete i usmere histeriju na hamas i da vise zavrsimo ovu pricu koja se valja - `ne podrzavamo teroriste ali ni normalne drzave ako biju teroriste u vecoj kolicini nego sto teroristi to rade njima` 

 

Niko nece moci da spase toliko zeljeni i na sve nacine zaustavljen nastavak terorizma po Izraelu, Iran, Turkije i Rusije se trude ali nema nista od toga.

[erwin]

Američki istoričar koji proučava genocide Bredli Simpson tvrdi da stotine naučnika koji se bave genocidom i holokaustom, uključujući mnoge istaknute Izraelce, opisuju izraelsko uništenje Gaze upravo rečju genocid i naglašava da je ovo verovatno prvi slučaj genocida u istoriji koji se prenosi pred očima celog sveta u realnom vremenu, bez informativnog vakuuma, sa počiniocima koji svaki dan ponosno objavljuju svoje namere, i vladama drugih država koje ponosno trube o svom učešću. Naglašava da je južnoafrički podnesak Međunarodnom krivičnom sudu razotkriti potpuni bankrot međunarodnog prava, pošto je najmoćnija država u istoriji sveta otvoreni saučesnik i već je najavila da će se počinioci izvući.

 

Quote

Brad Simpson (bradleyrsimpson.bsky.social) @bradleyrsimpson
As a historian who has researched and studied genocide in places like Indonesia and Timor Leste, I am deeply aware of the difficulties of determining when it seems clear that genocidal violence is unfolding. The Israeli annihilation of Gaza clearly meets that threshold. In most genocides there is an information vacuum, and details trickle out because of the difficulties of reporting in real time and placing events in context. Even in well publicized genocides - Rwanda, Bosnia - reporters and diplomats were behind the curve in grasping events. In East Timor and Indonesia, which I have studied well, a handful of voices characterized what was happening at the time as genocide (or politicide), but it took months or years before the international or scholarly community would generally acknowledge this.

The Israeli annihilation of Gaza may be the first episode in history of genocide unfolding in real time, in full view of the world, with the perpetrators proudly announcing their intentions every day, and other governments proudly trumpeting their participation. The South African petition to the international criminal court will expose the total bankruptcy of international law, since the most powerful country in the history of the world is an open accomplice and has already announced that the perpetrators will get away with it. It’s revealing that critics here refuse to acknowledge the hundreds of genocide and Holocaust scholars, including many prominent Israelis, describing Israel’s destruction of Gaza in precisely these terms. Nor do they show basic familiarity with actual scholarship on genocide.

https://twitter.com/bradleyrsimpson/status/1741462149665325363

 

https://history.uconn.edu/person/bradley-simpson/

 

I za kraj ove godine još malo Netanjahuovog ministra finansija Smotriča, koji ovaj put na izraelskom vojnom radiju još eksplicitnije zagovara proterivanje 90-95% populacije Gaze rečima: "Ako budemo delovali strateški ispravno, oni će se iseliti i mi ćemo živeti u Pojasu Gaze. Nećemo dozvoliti da tamo živi 2 miliona ljudi. Ako u Gazi bude 100-200 hiljada Arapa, cela priča o danu posle će biti drugačija. Oni žele da odu, žive u getu 75 godina i u problemu su."
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

I naravno opet ništa od ovoga neće dospeti u zapadne medije.

Edited December 31, 2023 by erwin

[tomas.hokenberi]

On 12/30/2023 at 3:41 PM, erwin said:

U tom članku još piše da je sever Gaze više uništen od Drezdena 1945.

Pa tehnologija je uznapredovala od 1945, normalno je da bude vise unisten. A iima i vise terorista Hamasa integrisanih u gradu nego sto je bilo pripadnika vermahta i SS u Drezdenu. Gaza je zapravo legitimnija meta nego Drezden 1945, cije bombardovanje nije imalo vise poseban znacaj.

 

Bradley Simpson bese onaj što je karijeru posvetio pluvanju US zbog podrške uništenju komunističke partije Indonezije?

Edited December 31, 2023 by tomas.hokenberi

[erwin]

Ne znam, baš pljuvanju, ni slučajno argumentovanoj kritici?

 

Ono što znam je da je početkom decembra 55 naučnika koji se bave genocidom i Holokaustom objavilo ovaj proglas.

 

Predgovor je napisao izraelski istoričar i profesor studija genocida i Holokausta Raz Segal.

Spoiler

In the following statement, over 55 scholars of the Holocaust, genocide, and mass violence deplore the atrocity crimes against civilians committed by Hamas and Islamic Jihad on 7 October and by Israeli forces since then. The starvation, mass killing, and forced displacement of Palestinian civilians in Gaza is ongoing, raising the question of genocide, especially in view of the intentions expressed by Israeli leaders. Israeli President Isaac Herzog used particularly loaded language in an interview on MSNBC just a few days ago, on 5 December: “This war is a war that is not only between Israel and Hamas. It’s a war that is intended, really, truly, to save western civilization. …  We are attacked by [a] Jihadist network, an empire of evil. … and this empire wants to conquer the entire Middle East, and if it weren’t for us, Europe would be next, and the United States follows.” Herzog builds on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s association of Israel’s attack on Gaza with the Biblical evil of Amalek, but he places it on a modern scale as the last stand against global apocalypse and the demise of “western civilization.” Both Herzog and Netanyahu are secular Jews. Their use of religious language and symbolism in this case reflects a dangerous intersection in the case of Israel of the exclusionary modern nation state with a settler colonial project in a place infused with multiple religious histories and meanings. The scholars who have signed the statement are signaling their alarm about the mass violence underway in Gaza and the inflammatory language that threatens to escalate it further. They call for urgent action to stop Israel’s attack on Gaza and to work towards a future that will guarantee the equality, freedom, dignity, and security of all the people who live between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

 

Tekst proglasa:

Quote

Statement of Scholars in Holocaust and Genocide Studies on Mass Violence in Israel and Palestine since 7 October

December 9, 2023

We, scholars of the Holocaust, genocide, and mass violence, feel compelled to warn of the danger of genocide in Israel’s attack on Gaza. We also note that, should the Israeli attack continue and escalate, Palestinians under Israeli military occupation in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and Palestinian citizens of Israel face grave danger as well.

We are deeply saddened and concerned by the mass murder of over 1,200 Israelis and migrant workers by Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and others on 7 October, with more than 830 civilians among them. We also note the evidence of gender-based and sexual violence during the attack, the wounding of thousands of Israelis, the destruction of Israeli kibbutzim and towns, and the abduction of more than 240 hostages into the Gaza Strip. These acts constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity. We recognize that violence in Israel and Palestine did not begin on 7 October. If we are to try to understand the mass murder of 7 October, we should place it within the context of Israeli settler colonialism, Israeli military occupation violence against Palestinians since 1967, the sixteen-year siege on the Gaza Strip since 2007, and the rise to power in Israel in the last year of a government made up of politicians who speak proudly about Jewish supremacy and exclusionary nationalism. Explaining is not justifying, and this context in no way excuses the targeting of Israeli civilians and migrant workers by Palestinians on 7 October.

We are also deeply saddened and concerned by the Israeli attack on Gaza in response to the Hamas attack. Israel’s assault has caused death and destruction on an unprecedented level, according to a New York Times article on 26 November. In two months, the Israeli assault has killed more than 16,000 Palestinians (with thousands more buried under the rubble)—nearly half of them children and youth, with a Palestinian child killed every ten minutes on average before the ceasefire—and wounded over 40,000. Considering that the total population of Gaza stands at 2.3 million people, the killing rate so far is about 0.7 percent in less than two months. The killing rate of civilians in Russia’s bombing and invasion of Ukraine in the areas most affected by the violence are probably similar—but over a longer period of time. A number of experts have therefore described Israel’s attack on Gaza as the most intense and deadliest of its kind since World War II, but while Russia’s attack on Ukraine has, for very good reason, prompted western leaders to support the people under attack, the same western leaders now support the violence of the Israeli state rather than the Palestinians under attack.

Israel has also forcibly displaced more than 1.8 million Palestinians within the Gaza Strip, while destroying almost half of all buildings and leaving the northern part of the Strip an “uninhabitable moonscape.” Indeed, the Israeli army has dropped more than 25,000 tons of explosives on Gaza since 7 October, which is equivalent to two Hiroshima bombs, and according to Human Rights Watch, deployed white phosphorous bombs. It has systematically targeted hospitals, schools, universities, mosques, churches, bakeries, and agricultural fields. The state has also killed many essential professionals, including more than 220 healthcare workers, over 100 UN personnel, and dozens of journalists. The forced displacement has, furthermore, created in the southern part of the Strip severe overcrowding, with the risk of outbreak of infectious diseases, exacerbated by shortages of food, clean water, fuel, and medical supplies, due to Israel’s “total siege” measures since 7 October.

The unprecedented level of destruction and killing points to large-scale war crimes in Israel’s attack on Gaza. There is also evidence of a “widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack” that the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court defines as a crime against humanity. Moreover, dozens of statements of Israeli leaders, ministers in the war cabinet, and senior army officers since 7 October—that is, people with command authority—suggest an “intent to destroy” Palestinians “as such,” in the language of the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The statements include depictions of all Palestinians in Gaza as responsible for the Hamas attack on 7 October and therefore legitimate military targets, as expressed by Israeli President Herzog on 13 October and by Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu when he invoked, on 29 October, the Biblical story of the total destruction of Amalek by the Israelites, just as Israel began its ground invasion. Casting an entire civilian population as enemies marks the history of modern genocide, with the Armenian genocide (1915-1918) and the Rwanda genocide (1994) as well-known examples. The statements also include dehumanizing language, such as Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant’s reference to “human animals” when he proclaimed “total siege” on Gaza on 9 October. The slippage between seeing Hamas as “human animals” to seeing all Palestinians in Gaza in this way is evident in what Israeli Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories Maj. Gen. Ghassan Alian promised to people in Gaza the next day: “Hamas has turned into ISIS, and the residents of Gaza, instead of being appalled, are celebrating. … Human animals must be treated as such. There will be no electricity and no water [in Gaza], there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell.”

These expressions of intent need to be understood also in relation to the widespread incitement to genocide in Israeli media since 7 October. Israeli journalist David Mizrachi Wertheim, for instance, wrote on social media on 7 October that “If all the captives are not returned immediately, then turn the [Gaza] Strip into a slaughterhouse. If a hair falls from their head – execute security prisoners. Violate all norms on the way to victory.” He also added, “we are facing human animals.” Four days later, another Israeli journalist, Roy Sharon, commented on social media “that if, in order to finally eliminate the military capabilities of Hamas, including Sinwar and Deif, we need a million bodies, then let there be a million bodies.” Annihilatory language now also appears in public spaces, such as banners on bridges in Tel Aviv that call “to annihilate Gaza” and explain that “the picture of triumph is 0 people in Gaza.” There are dozens of examples of incitement in Israeli media, which recalls the incitement to genocide in Rwanda as genocide was unfolding there in 1994.

This incitement points to the grave danger that Palestinians everywhere under Israeli rule now face. Israeli army and settler violence in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, which has intensified markedly from the beginning of 2023, has entered a new stage of brutality after 7 October. Sixteen Palestinian communities—over a thousand people—have been forcibly displaced in their entirety, continuing the policy of “ethnic cleansing” in Area C that comprises 60 percent of the West Bank. Israeli soldiers and settlers have furthermore killed more than 220 Palestinians in the West Bank since 7 October, while arresting thousands. The violence against Palestinians also includes acts of torture.

Palestinian citizens of Israel—almost 2 million people—are also facing a state assault against them, with hundreds of arrests since 7 October for any expression of identification with Palestinians in Gaza. There is widespread intimidation and silencing of Palestinian students, faculty, and staff in Israeli universities, and the Israeli Police Commissioner Kobi Shabtai threatened to expel to Gaza Israeli Palestinians identifying with Palestinians in Gaza. These alarming developments and measures build on a view of Palestinian citizens of Israel as potential enemies that stretches back to the military rule imposed on the 156,000 Palestinians who survived the Nakba and remained within the territory that became Israel in 1948. This iteration of military rule lasted until 1966, but the image of Israeli Palestinians as a threat has persisted. In May 2021, as many Israeli Palestinians came out to protest an attack on Palestinians in East Jerusalem and another attack on Gaza, the Israeli police responded with massive repression and violence, arresting hundreds. The situation deteriorated quickly, as Jewish and Palestinian citizens clashed across Israel—in some places, as in Haifa, with Jewish citizens attacking Palestinian citizens on the streets and breaking into houses of Palestinian citizens. And now, Itamar Ben-Gvir, the far-right settler who serves as Israeli minister of national security, has put Israeli Palestinians in even more danger by the distribution of thousands of weapons to Israeli civilians who have formed hundreds of self-defense units after 7 October.

The escalating violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and the exclusion and violence against Palestinian citizens of Israel are particularly worrying in the context of calls in Israel after 7 October for a “second Nakba.” The reference is to the massacres and “ethnic cleansing” of more than 750,000 Palestinians and the destruction of hundreds of villages and towns by Israeli forces in the 1948 war, when Israel was established. The language that member of the Israeli Knesset (parliament) Ariel Kallner from the ruling Likud party used in a social media post on 7 October is instructive: “Nakba to the enemy now. … Now, only one goal: Nakba! Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to whoever dares to join [them].” We know that genocide is a process, and we recognize that the stage is thus set for violence more severe than the Nakba and not spatially limited to Gaza.

Thus, the time for concerted action to prevent genocide is now. We call on governments to uphold their legal obligations under the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide to intervene and prevent genocide (Article 1) by (1) implementing an arms embargo on Israel; (2) working to end Israel’s military assault on Gaza; (3) pressuring the Israeli government to stop immediately the intensifying army and settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which constitute clear violations of international law; (4) demanding the continued release of all hostages held in Gaza and all Palestinians imprisoned unlawfully in Israel, without charges or trial; (5) calling on the International Criminal Court to investigate and issue arrest warrants against all perpetrators of mass violence on 7 October and since then, both Palestinians and Israelis; and (6) initiating a political process in Israel and Palestine based on a truthful reckoning with Israeli mass violence against Palestinians since the 1948 Nakba and a future that will guarantee the equality, freedom, dignity, and security of all the people who live between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

We also call on businesses and labor unions to ensure that they do not aid and abet Israeli mass violence, but rather follow the example of workers in Belgium transport unions who refused in late October to handle flights that ship arms to Israel.

Finally, we call on scholars, programs, centers, and institutes in Holocaust and Genocide Studies to take a clear stance against Israeli mass violence and join us in efforts to stop it and prevent its further escalation.

 

Potpisnici:

Spoiler

Mohamed Adhikari, University of Cape Town

Taner Akçam, Director, Armenian Genocide Research Program, The Promise Armenian Institute, UCLA

Ayhan Aktar, Professor of Sociology (Retired), Istanbul Bilgi University

Yassin Al Haj Saleh, Syrian Writer, Berlin

Sebouh David Aslanian, Professor of History and Richard Hovannisian Endowed Chair in Modern Armenian History, UCLA

Karyn Ball, Professor of English and Film Studies, University of Alberta, Edmonton

Haim Bresheeth-Žabner, Professorial Research Associate, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London

Cathie Carmichael, Professor Emerita, School of History, University of East Anglia

Daniele Conversi, Professor, Department of Contemporary History, University of the Basque Country

Catherine Coquio, Professeure de littérature comparée à Université Paris Cité, France

John Cox, Associate Professor of History and Global Studies and Director of the Center for Holocaust, Genocide, and Human Rights Studies, University of North Carolina, Charlotte

Martin Crook, Senior Lecturer in Sociology, University of the West of England

Ann Curthoys, Honorary Professor, School of Humanities, The University of Sydney

Sarah K. Danielsson, Professor of History, Queensborough, CUNY

John Docker, Sydney, Australia

John Duncan, affiliated with the Institute of Commonwealth Studies, School of Advanced Study, University of London

Didier Fassin, Professor at the Collège de France and the Institute for Advanced Study

Joanne Smith Finley, Reader in Chinese Studies, Newcastle University, UK

Shannon Fyfe, Assistant Professor of Philosophy, George Mason University; Faculty Fellow, Institute for Philosophy and Public Policy

William Gallois, Professor of the Islamic Mediterranean, University of Exeter

Fatma Muge Gocek, Professor of Sociology, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

Svenja Goltermann, Professor of Modern History, University of Zurich

Andrei Gómez-Suarez, Senior Research Fellow, Centre of Religion, Reconciliation and Peace, University of Winchester

Penny Green, Professor of Law and Globalisation and Director of the International State Crime Initiative, Queen Mary University of London

John-Paul Himka, Professor Emeritus, University of Alberta

Marianne Hirschberg, Professor, Faculty of Human Sciences, University of Kassel, Germany

Anna Holian, Associate Professor, School of Historical, Philosophical & Religious Studies, Arizona State University

Rachel Ibreck, Senior Lecturer in Politics and International Relations, Department of Politics and International Relations, Goldsmiths, University of London

Adam Jones, Professor, Political Science, University of British Columbia Okanagan

Rachel Killean, Senior Lecturer, University of Sydney Law School

Brian Klug, Hon. Fellow in Social Philosophy, Campion Hall, University of Oxford, and Hon. Fellow, Parkes Institute for the Study of Jewish/non-Jewish Relations, University of Southampton

Mill Lake, Associate Professor, International Relations Department, London School of Economics

Mark Levene, Emeritus Fellow, University of Southampton

Yosefa Loshitzky, Professorial Research Associate, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London

Thomas MacManus, Senior Lecturer in State Crime, School of Law, Queen Mary University of London

Zachariah Mampilly, Professor, Baruch College and the Graduate Center, CUNY

Benjamin Meiches, Associate Professor of Security Studies and Conflict Resolution, University of Washington-Tacoma

Dirk Moses, Professor of International Relations, City College of New York, CUNY

Eva Nanopoulos, Senior Lecturer in Law, Queen Mary University of London

Jeffrey Ostler, Professor of History Emeritus, University of Oregon

Thomas Earl Porter, Professor of History, North Carolina A&T State University, Greensboro, NC

Michael Rothberg, Professor of English, Comparative Literature, and Holocaust Studies, UCLA

Colin Samson, Professor of Sociology, University of Essex

Victoria Sanford, Lehman Professor of Excellence, Lehman College and the Graduate Center, CUNY

Raz Segal, Associate Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies and Endowed Professor in the Study of Modern Genocide, Stockton University

Elyse Semerdjian, Robert Aram and Marianne Kaloosdian and Stephen and Marian Mugar Chair of Armenian Genocide Studies, Clark University

Martin Shaw, University of Sussex/Institut Barcelona d’Estudis Internacionals

Damien Short, Co-Director of the Human Rights Consortium and Professor of Human Rights and Environmental Justice at the School of Advanced Study, University of London

Ronald Grigor Suny, William H. Sewell, Jr. Distinguished University Professor Emeritus of History and Emeritus Professor of Political Science, University of Michigan

Adam Sutcliffe, Professor of European History, King’s College London

Barry Trachtenberg, Rubin Presidential Chair of Jewish History, Wake Forest University

Enzo Traverso, Professor in the Humanities, Cornell University

Jeremy Varon, Professor of History, The New School, New York

Ernesto Verdeja, Associate Professor of Peace Studies and Global Politics, University of Notre Dame

Johanna Ray Vollhardt, Associate Professor of Psychology, Clark University

Pauline Wakeham, Associate Professor, Department of English, Western University (Canada)

Keith David Watenpaugh, Professor and Director, Human Rights Studies, University of California, Davis

Louise Wise, Lecturer in International Security, University of Sussex

Andrew Woolford, Professor of Sociology and Criminology, University of Manitoba

Ran Zwigenberg, Associate Professor of Asian Studies, History, and Jewish Studies, Pennsylvania State University

https://contendingmodernities.nd.edu/global-currents/statement-of-scholars-7-october/

Edited January 1 by erwin

[Klotzen]

 

Izrael je povukao 5 brigada iz Gaze. Utisak je da je nivo operacija opao unazad dve nedelje no situaciju na severu se polako rešava. 

 

Jedna interesantna vesta je da je od 170 poginulih izraelskih vojnika 29 poginulo od "prijateljske vatre" a od toga 18 od direktne paljbe po njima. To je objašnjenje zašto se Ukrajinci onoliko oblepljuju selotepom, u odsudnom trenutku kada naiđete na nekog koga ne očekujete prečesto je prst brži od mozga. Možda je vreme da se svet vrati na uniforme iz 19. veka i ranije kada su manje više svi imali različite uniforme. Sa pojavom dronova kamuflaža igra sve manju i manju ulogu tako da pitanje je koliko to više ima smisla osim za možda neke specijalne jedinice koje idu iza linija odbrane neprijatelja.

[Selina]

10 hours ago, tomas.hokenberi said:

Pa tehnologija je uznapredovala od 1945, normalno je da bude vise unisten. A iima i vise terorista Hamasa integrisanih u gradu nego sto je bilo pripadnika vermahta i SS u Drezdenu. Gaza je zapravo legitimnija meta nego Drezden 1945, cije bombardovanje nije imalo vise poseban znacaj.

 

Bradley Simpson bese onaj što je karijeru posvetio pluvanju US zbog podrške uništenju komunističke partije Indonezije?

Drezden je bio britanska osveta, nije tu bilo nikakve vojske, samo civila, uglavnom izbeglica.

 

Izrael inace sprema optuznicu protiv Hamasa, bice to najveci posleratni proces ( od Ajhmana do danas)

tako da ce Hamas gospoda morati verovatno da begaju na recimo Borneo.

 

Takav se uzasan zlocin u novije vreme nije nigde dogodio i to mora da se procesuira jer se ovde ne radi o klasicnim

psihopatama nego o planiranju, unistavanju, ponizenju i to na najstrasniji nacin ( bacanje zive dece u vatru, secenje

polnih organa i dojki, silovanja do smrti) a za to sve postoje materijalni dokazi u vidu 200.000 slika i snimaka i izjave

oko 3000 svedoka, ocevidaca. Logistiku i taktiku smislio je onaj sto mu je oduzeta zemlja pa kao siroma zivi u Kataru

u najskupljem hotelu sa svoje trinaestoro dece.

[DameTime]

21 hours ago, A sad said:

Drzi se ti vizantijskih crkava u Gazi. Bolje ti to ide. 

 

Predivan način komunikacije, pre svega od strane jednog moderatora.

[ciao]

Jedna stvar je sigurna a to je da ce jevreji u svetu biti omrazeni mnogo vise nego sto su do sada bili, ovo unistenje Gaze i civila tamo kao osveta ostavlja tragove u ljudima , ja vidim po ovima oko mene koji su ranije bili ravnodusni ili vise naklonjeni jevrejima ako su uopste pravili neku razliku sada kazu da ne mogu da ih vide ocima niti da cuju za njih. Netanijahu ce da ode ali nisam sigurna koliko ce to da pomogne. Zlocin Hamasa je trajao nekih sedam sati a ubijanje civila tamo traje i traje.