Bliski Istok

[Beonegro]

21 minutes ago, Kronostime said:

Dzaba - ne mozes zagraditi citav svet,

Ma pogrešno sam se izrazio, ja bih samo da odredimo neki teren za sve odrasle ljude ubijeđene u to da je njihov imaginarni prijatelj jedini pravi imaginarni prijatelj, da se oni međusobno dogovore koji je to imaginarni prijatelj.

[erwin]

 

[Clash]

1 hour ago, Beonegro said:

 

Jery bismo mogli nekako da ih zagradimo taman u tu pustojebinu, pa neka ratuju do zadljeg? 🤔

Taman na tom platou tamo ogradi se kavez kao u UFC i onda neki romanticni naziv tipa Last dance fight.

[erwin]

 

[shonke]

 
U more?
 
Ja stvarno ne vidim gde moze tih 2 miliona nesrecnih ljudi da ode iz Gaze. Mislim da bi potpuna deportacija koju bi organizovao Izrael bila katastrofa, etnicko ciscenje i ogromno ponizenje na koje druge muslimanske zemlje ne bi mogle da zatvore oci. 

Mogli bi itekako kao što su i do sada zatvarali i oči i granice.

Sent from my SM-A525F using Tapatalk

[Big Ticket]

Зашто бебе, зашто бебе мајку ли вам болесну?

 

И даље се надам да ће невини Палестинци наћи свој мир, а с друге стране знам да убијање и неутралисање овог зла не може проћи без цивилних жртава. 

[suptil]

 

Beograd Skyline

[MeanMachine]

3 hours ago, DJORDJE said:

Pitanje za ove neutralne pacifiste sto bi da pregovaraju. Sa kime bi to Izrael u ovom slucaju trebalo da pregovara? Sa PLO? Pa oni su proterani iz Gaze, Hamas ih ubija kao da su Izraelci, kakav bi ruzultat dao bilo koji sporazum sa PLO? Pregovori sa Hamasom? Hamas se zalaze za unistenje drzave Izrael i istrebljenje svih Jevreja na Bliskom Istoku. Koji bi kompromis tu izrael mogao da prihvati? Da ih pobiju samo 50% pa da se onda rukuju oko toga? 

 

Kakvi pregovori? Prihvatis da je Gaza nezavisna drzava, i lepo onda im krenes da naplacujes sve po realnim cenama, a granicu lepo miniras i postavis bunkere da nema vise ovakvih upada. A ne da se grade kibci tik uz Gazu i slicne genijalne ideje.

 

I da nemogucnost drzavljana nezavisne Gaze da nadju posla u Izraelu pa jedno minimum deceniju dok se ne vidi da li ce sami maknuti Hamas jer dok god je Hamas glavni jbg svaki potecijalni radnik iz Gaze cak i da je Gaza nezavisna je moguc terorista.

[Selina]

29 minutes ago, suptil said:

 

Beograd Skyline

Wembley stadion je odbio da se osvetlljava u izraelskim bojama, zabranio je sve dresove i zastave i Izraela i Palestine jer

ima strasnih zrtvi i kod jednih i kod drugih. Minut cutanja i crni flor na dresovima igraca.

 

U medjuvremenu su se javili tast i tasta skotskog premijera, ocajni su ( oni su tamo u poseti kod svog sina i njegove porodice 

koja ima i jednu bebu) jer nemaju struju pa su sve namernice pokvarile.

[shonke]

@MeanMachine

Nešto takvo postoji, zid, ima valjda samo dva prelaza. A onda ovi naprave stotine km tunela, od kojih su neki vodili pravo u podrume nekih zgrada! Neki tuneli se nalaze čak 40m ispod površine. Deo grupe koja je napala onaj festival je doletela, bukvalno, motornim paraglajedrima (ili zmajevima, jbg, šta je već).

Juče iskočio video kako su se pripremali za prelaz preko prepreka.

A na snimcima se vidi gomila nekih terorista u običnoj odeći, samo naoružanje u rukama. Takvi se kriju i po kućama i bolnicama i gde god nađu za shodno.

Krene invazija, oni bace oružje, umešaju se u izbeglice pa ti proceni da li je samohrani otac šestoro dece ili ubica koji je pre 5 dana ubio šestoro dece.

Edited October 12, 2023 by shonke

[MeanMachine]

10 minutes ago, shonke said:

@MeanMachine

Nešto takvo postoji, zid, ima valjda samo dva prelaza. A onda ovi naprave stotine km tunela, od kojih su neki vodili pravo u podrume nekih zgrada! Neki tuneli se nalaze čak 40m ispod površine. Deo grupe koja je napala onaj festival je doletela, bukvalno, motornim paraglajedrima (ili zmajevima, jbg, šta je već).

Juče iskočio video kako su se pripremali za prelaz preko prepreka.

A na snimcima se vidi gomila nekih terorista u običnoj odeći, samo naoružanje u rukama. Takvi se kriju i po kućama i bolnicama i gde god nađu za shodno.

Krene invazija, oni bace oružje, umešaju se u izbeglice pa ti proceni da li je samohrani otac šestoro dece ili ubica koji je pre 5 dana ubio šestoro dece.

 

 

Paraglajderi i tuneli. Pa kakva je to "odbrambena" linija ako to ne moze da resi? 

 

 

Nikakva. 

 

Problem je sto Izrael zbog svetske javnosti ali i zbog svojih nedavaca "Gaza je srce Izraela" nije uradio stvarno ozbiljnu fortifikaciju. Naravno to znaci da nemas kibica i tkz nelegalnih naselja vec par kilometara pustinje sa minama, pa onda ozbiljnu fortifikaciju iza iste. Zabrana leta iznad iste se podrazumeva. 

 

E da je Izrael odmah krenuo posle ovog napada u tom smeru bilo bi dosta lakse to odraditi, ovako ce da preoru Gazu opet ce da budu bad guys a kasnije nedavaci u Izraelu ce da sabotiraju bilo kakav plan da se naselja odmaknu od Gaze i da se napravi pojas sa minama a iza bunkeri.

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by MeanMachine

[erwin]

 

[DJORDJE]

53 minutes ago, MeanMachine said:

 

Kakvi pregovori? Prihvatis da je Gaza nezavisna drzava, i lepo onda im krenes da naplacujes sve po realnim cenama, a granicu lepo miniras i postavis bunkere da nema vise ovakvih upada. A ne da se grade kibci tik uz Gazu i slicne genijalne ideje.

 

I da nemogucnost drzavljana nezavisne Gaze da nadju posla u Izraelu pa jedno minimum deceniju dok se ne vidi da li ce sami maknuti Hamas jer dok god je Hamas glavni jbg svaki potecijalni radnik iz Gaze cak i da je Gaza nezavisna je moguc terorista.

A onih par hiljada raketa sto iz Gaze ispale  na Izrael, sta ce sa njima da rade? Gaza je defakto nezavisna drzava vec skoro 20 godina, Izrael nad tom teritorijom nema nikakvu vlast.

[MeanMachine]

5 minutes ago, DJORDJE said:

A onih par hiljada raketa sto iz Gaze ispale  na Izrael, sta ce sa njima da rade? Gaza je defakto nezavisna drzava vec skoro 20 godina, Izrael nad tom teritorijom nema nikakvu vlast.

 

 

Daleko veci problem su upadi od raketa. Ako bi Gaza bila nezavisna a opet ih Hamas gadjao raketama pa lepo uzvrate, mogu i Izraelci da naprave jeftine rakete neprecizne ko hamasove. Ali problem upada je mnogo veci, evo sad se ovo desilo, dakle moraju da debelo razmisle sta i kako sa tom granicom. Najlaksi put je prihvatiti da je to nezavisna drzava pa se vi sami jebite a mi cemo lepo da miniramo par km uz granicu a iza bunkeri. 

 

I resen problem upada. Ali kad izgradis naselja blizu granice i imas nekakvu ogradicu i smesne osmatracnice, pa naravno da ce hamas jednom da provali kako da to resi. A da posto su naselja blizu onda su baze malte ne na samoj granici pa padne baza i eto sranja.

 

[erwin]

14 minutes ago, MeanMachine said:

imas nekakvu ogradicu i smesne osmatracnice

 

Spucali su milijardu u tu ogradicu.

 

Quote

Israeli leaders believed that the fortification, an NIS 3.5 billion ($1.1 billion) project that took over three years to complete, would provide a defensive shield around its citizens on the border.
“This barrier, a creative, technological project of the first order, denies Hamas one of the capabilities that it tried to develop and puts a wall of iron, sensors and concrete between it and the residents of the south,” said then-defense minister Benny Gantz at a ceremony marking its completion in 2019.
As videos of the calamity on Saturday made painfully clear, the fence did next to nothing to stop the invasion.
Hamas fighters knocked it aside with bulldozers, then drove right through the gaping holes in jeeps and on motorcycles. Others sailed right over in gliders, while members of Hamas’s navy hopped on boats to try to reach Israel by sea.
The results are known to everyone by this point.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-did-israel-think-a-border-fence-would-protect-it-from-an-army-of-terrorists/

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by erwin

[Čerčil]

1 hour ago, MeanMachine said:

 

Kakvi pregovori? Prihvatis da je Gaza nezavisna drzava, i lepo onda im krenes da naplacujes sve po realnim cenama, a granicu lepo miniras i postavis bunkere da nema vise ovakvih upada. A ne da se grade kibci tik uz Gazu i slicne genijalne ideje.

 

I da nemogucnost drzavljana nezavisne Gaze da nadju posla u Izraelu pa jedno minimum deceniju dok se ne vidi da li ce sami maknuti Hamas jer dok god je Hamas glavni jbg svaki potecijalni radnik iz Gaze cak i da je Gaza nezavisna je moguc terorista.

Praktično su na taj način čistili palestince iz zemlje od početka. 

Ono, jeste kao humanije. 

[MeanMachine]

6 minutes ago, Čerčil said:

Praktično su na taj način čistili palestince iz zemlje od početka. 

Ono, jeste kao humanije. 

 

Elem da nije sad bio ovako uzasan napad pa jos da kazes da su moji predlozi prilicno radikalni ali jbg posle ovoga jedino nekrvavo resenje je da se lepo odvoje jedni od drugih potpuno na neko vreme tj dok god hamas vlada Gazom.

 

Ovo sto se sad desava nije resenje, preorace Gazu i samo ce ojacati hamas. Price da ce da rese hamas vojnom akcijom su smesne. Pa setimo se npr da je plo rusen a nastade hamas, pa je al kaida rusena pa nastade isis, dakle i da hamas vojnom akcijom rese nastace nekakav novi isis.

24 minutes ago, erwin said:

 

Spucali su milijardu u tu ogradicu.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-did-israel-think-a-border-fence-would-protect-it-from-an-army-of-terrorists/

 

 

 

 

 

Videh snimak napada dronom na osmatracnicu, ko je smislio takvu osmatracnicu treba da dobije darvinovu nagradu.

Edited October 12, 2023 by MeanMachine

[longbowman]

 

Stvarno bre i ti novinari, bave se glupostima 

[Maharaja]

54 minutes ago, MeanMachine said:

 

Elem da nije sad bio ovako uzasan napad pa jos da kazes da su moji predlozi prilicno radikalni ali jbg posle ovoga jedino nekrvavo resenje je da se lepo odvoje jedni od drugih potpuno na neko vreme tj dok god hamas vlada Gazom.

 

Ovo sto se sad desava nije resenje, preorace Gazu i samo ce ojacati hamas. Price da ce da rese hamas vojnom akcijom su smesne. Pa setimo se npr da je plo rusen a nastade hamas, pa je al kaida rusena pa nastade isis, dakle i da hamas vojnom akcijom rese nastace nekakav novi isis.

 

 

Videh snimak napada dronom na osmatracnicu, ko je smislio takvu osmatracnicu treba da dobije darvinovu nagradu.

Izrael iako ne preore Gazu, ako pokaže i najmanju slabost, samo će dobiti još više terorističkih napada danas, sutra i prekosutra.

 

Za Izrael nema dobrog rešenja u tom bolesnom okruženju.

[erwin]

  

Quote

Hamas’s atrocities and Israel’s retaliation will change both sides for ever (...)
Ignore at your peril
Indeed, Israel is having to re-examine many long-held assumptions, most notably the belief that Gaza could safely be left to fester. After Hamas seized control of Gaza in 2007 from the Palestinian Authority (pa), the Palestinian government-in-waiting, Israel and Egypt drastically tightened border restrictions, asphyxiating Gaza’s economy. Despite the repeated bouts of violence since then, Israeli officials had come to think that Hamas had become more pragmatic. “Above all, they want to keep control of Gaza,” an army officer said last year. “To do that they need to improve the economy.” If Israel allowed Arab governments to bankroll basic social services in Gaza, the thinking ran, and issued more permits for Gazans to work in Israel, the territory would remain quiescent.

Not only was that view completely wrong, but Israel’s vaunted security services also failed to spot that an elaborate attack was in the works. Every phone call in Gaza is routed through Israeli networks, which simplifies eavesdropping. Drones frequently fly over the strip. Israel also has a vast network of informants in the territory—all to no avail.

Part of the problem, no doubt, was a conceptual failure: the belief that Hamas had lost interest in large-scale conflict. In fact, even some Hamas leaders seem surprised. Mr Abu Marzouk says he and other senior leaders in Qatar were not told about the attack in advance. Since 2017, when Yahya Sinwar became the leader of Hamas in Gaza, a small number of hardliners, mostly based in Gaza, have consolidated power.

A second error was the divide-and-rule policy towards the Palestinians of Binyamin Netanyahu, who has been Israel’s prime minister for 12 of the past 14 years. He has long sought to undermine the pa, which still runs parts of the West Bank. He has refused to resume peace negotiations since half-hearted talks broke down in 2014. He has frozen transfers of the tax revenues Israel collects on the pa’s behalf. At the same time, he has treated Hamas like a legitimate power in Gaza. In 2011, for instance, he approved a deal to swap 1,027 Palestinian prisoners for Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier the militants had captured in 2006. The exchange, naturally, raised Hamas’s standing among Palestinians.

For Mr Netanyahu, the logic was clear. The Palestinian Authority (PA) is committed to negotiating a two-state solution with Israel, which is anathema to the prime minister’s right-wing supporters. Undermining the PA and boosting its militant rival would help him to claim that Israel has no “partner for peace”. But Palestinians drew a different, if predictable lesson: that the only way to extract concessions from Israel is through force.

Hamas may now have overreached, however. Some observers believe it did not expect its assault to be so successful and is not sure how to proceed. It may have hoped to frighten Israel into concessions, but has instead steeled it for war. The Israeli army told foreign defence attachés on October 10th that its aim was to “eliminate” the leadership of Hamas. “The military end-goal is to destroy Hamas’s capability, no matter how long it takes,” the army said, according to someone who attended. That is easier said than done, though, as America learned during its long war in Afghanistan, or Israel during its 18-year occupation of southern Lebanon.

Even if Israel could uproot Hamas, no one is sure what would replace it. The PA is too weak to assert authority in Gaza; it is not even strong enough to control the West Bank, parts of which have fallen into anarchy. A plurality of Palestinians, and a majority of Gazans, want to dissolve it. Mahmoud Abbas, the 87-year-old president, has not set foot in Gaza in almost 20 years.

There has been some idle talk of sending Arab peacekeepers to secure Gaza, but few Arab regimes would want to do so. Egypt occupied Gaza from 1949 to 1967; both sides have bitter memories of that time. Gulf states such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have no desire to rule over 2m Palestinians. Nor do most Israelis wish to reoccupy the territory.

To invade and then leave, however, would not change the status quo. Hamas’s leaders and a large proportion of its fighters are likely to emerge from their bunkers and restore control over the strip the minute the Israelis depart. That is an unpalatable outcome, but it is the most likely one. (...)

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/10/12/hamass-atrocities-and-israels-retaliation-will-change-both-sides-for-ever

[033zero330]

 

 

[erwin]

  

Quote

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has issued a stern warning about the current escalation in Gaza.

In statements on Tuesday, Sisi reaffirmed Egypt’s National Security being his top responsibility and that it “cannot be compromised or forfeited under any circumstance.”

He added that Egypt will not allow the termination of the Palestinian cause at the expense of other parties.

Sisi confirmed that his country is closely monitoring the developments in the region, particularly in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

“Egypt is intensifying its efforts at all levels to halt the current military confrontations, to spare the blood of the Palestinian people, and to protect civilians on both the Palestinian and Israeli sides,” said Sisi.

“Egypt affirms that a just and comprehensive peace based on a two-state solution is the way to achieve genuine and sustainable security for the Palestinian people.”

He added that “Egypt does not relinquish its commitments to Arab issues, with the Palestinian cause at the forefront.”

Sisi expressed Egypt’s hope for a resolution and settlement of the Palestinian cause “through negotiations leading to a just peace and the establishment of the Palestinian state.”

Regarding Egypt’s efforts to achieve a ceasefire, he said: “We are in communication with all international powers and all regional influential parties to reach an immediate cessation of violence and achieve a ceasefire to save the lives of civilians on both sides.”

At a time when there are increasing concerns about a potential mass Palestinian migration toward the Egyptian border with Gaza, Sisi emphasized that "there will be no compromise on Egypt’s national security under any circumstances, and the Egyptian people must be aware of the complexities of the situation and the magnitude of the threat.”

High-ranking Egyptian security sources have issued a warning through statements to Egyptian media.

They expressed concerns about what they described as “an attempt to push Palestinians in Gaza towards migrating to the Egyptian border due to the ongoing Israeli airstrikes in the strip.”

The sources emphasized that “Egyptian sovereignty is not to be violated.”

https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/4598426-sisi-egypt-won’t-allow-termination-palestinian-cause-expense-other-parties

 

 

Quote

The UK will send surveillance aircraft and two Royal Navy ships to the eastern Mediterranean in plans “to support Israel", No 10 says.
The aircraft will begin patrols on Friday to "track threats to regional stability such as the transfer of weapons to terrorist groups".
The package includes surveillance assets, helicopters, P8 aircraft, and a company of marines.
Rishi Sunak said the military support would "prevent further escalation".
The British armed forces will be on standby to "deliver practical support to Israel and partners in the region, and offer deterrence and assurance", Downing Street said.
Under the plans, a Royal Navy task group will be moved to the area next week to support humanitarian efforts.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67095846

Edited October 12, 2023 by erwin

[erwin]

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by erwin

[erwin]

 

[Darko]

4 hours ago, Selina said:

U medjuvremenu su se javili tast i tasta skotskog premijera, ocajni su ( oni su tamo u poseti kod svog sina i njegove porodice 

koja ima i jednu bebu) jer nemaju struju pa su sve namernice pokvarile.

Ovo je baš bljutavo od tebe. Kako bi ti bilo da je tvoje dete tamo sada?

Edited October 12, 2023 by Darko