Epidemija koronavirusa (Covid-19 / SARS-Cov2) - dnevne aktuelnosti iz zemlje i sveta

[Angelia]

Interesatna analiza:

 

This systematic review and meta-analysis are designed to determine whether there is empirical evidence to support the belief that “lockdowns” reduce COVID-19 mortality. Lockdowns are defined as the imposition of at least one compulsory, non-pharmaceutical intervention (NPI). NPIs are any government mandate that directly restrict peoples’ possibilities, such as policies that limit internal movement, close schools and businesses, and ban international travel. This study employed a systematic search and screening procedure in which 18,590 studies are identified that could potentially address the belief posed. After three levels of screening, 34 studies ultimately qualified. Of those 34 eligible studies, 24 qualified for inclusion in the meta-analysis. They were separated into three groups: lockdown stringency index studies, shelter-in-placeorder (SIPO) studies, and specific NPI studies. An analysis of each of these three groups support the conclusion that lockdowns have had little to no effect on COVID-19 mortality. More specifically, stringency index studies find that lockdowns in Europe and the United States only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 0.2% on average. SIPOs were also ineffective, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.9% on average. Specific NPI studies also find no broad-based evidence of noticeable effects on COVID-19 mortality. While this meta-analysis concludes that lockdowns have had little to no public health effects, they have imposed enormous economic and social costs where they have been adopted. In consequence, lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument.

 

https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

 

Ne znam da li je confirmation bias, ali autori su ozbiljni ljudi. 

Prof. Steve H. Hanke, Founder and Co-Director of The Johns Hopkins Institute for Applied Economics, Global Health, and the Study of Business Enterprise

[Eddard]

Interesantna... Ako tako nazovemo studiju sa ozbiljnim manama:

 

Dr Seth Flaxman, Associate Professor in the Department of Computer Science, University of Oxford, said:

“Smoking causes cancer, the earth is round, and ordering people to stay at home (the correct definition of lockdown) decreases disease transmission. None of this is controversial among scientists. A study purporting to prove the opposite is almost certain to be fundamentally flawed.

“In this case, a trio of economists have undertaken a meta-analysis of many previous studies. So far so good. But they systematically excluded from consideration any study based on the science of disease transmission, meaning that the only studies looked at in the analysis are studies using the methods of economics. These do not include key facts about disease transmission such as: later lockdowns are less effective than earlier lockdowns, because many people are already infected; lockdowns do not immediately save lives, because there’s a lag from infection to death, so to see the effect of lockdowns on Covid deaths we need to wait about two or three weeks. (This was all known in March 2020 – we discussed it in a paper released that month, and later published in Nature. Our paper is excluded from consideration in this meta-analysis.)

“It’s as if we wanted to know whether smoking causes cancer and so we asked a bunch of new smokers: did you have cancer the day before you started smoking? And what about the day after? If we did this, obviously we’d incorrectly conclude smoking is unrelated to cancer, but we’d be ignoring basic science. The science of diseases and their causes is complex, and it has a lot of surprises for us, but there are appropriate methods to study it, and inappropriate methods. This study intentionally excludes all studies rooted in epidemiology–the science of disease.”

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-a-preprint-looking-at-the-impact-of-lockdowns-as-posted-on-the-john-hopkins-krieger-school-of-arts-and-sciences-website/

Edited February 3, 2022 by Eddard

[Ridji]

Ne temu ukusa, nisam gubio ukus tokom dana temperature, šta više pojačao mi se bio apetit a posebno sam tamanio slatko, što je za mene velika promena s obzirom da do novembra prethodne 4 godine jedva da sam jeo slatko i vrlo retko.

Ali poslednja dva dana ukus mi se potpuno izmenio, još je tu, osećam slano, ljuto, slatko… Medjutim nekako mi je ipak sve drugačijeg ukusa, nije mi prijatno, plus sam izgubio apetit skroz…

[Angelia]

22 minutes ago, Eddard said:

Interesantna... Ako tako nazovemo studiju sa ozbiljnim manama:

 

Dr Seth Flaxman, Associate Professor in the Department of Computer Science, University of Oxford, said:

“Smoking causes cancer, the earth is round, and ordering people to stay at home (the correct definition of lockdown) decreases disease transmission. None of this is controversial among scientists. A study purporting to prove the opposite is almost certain to be fundamentally flawed.

“In this case, a trio of economists have undertaken a meta-analysis of many previous studies. So far so good. But they systematically excluded from consideration any study based on the science of disease transmission, meaning that the only studies looked at in the analysis are studies using the methods of economics. These do not include key facts about disease transmission such as: later lockdowns are less effective than earlier lockdowns, because many people are already infected; lockdowns do not immediately save lives, because there’s a lag from infection to death, so to see the effect of lockdowns on Covid deaths we need to wait about two or three weeks. (This was all known in March 2020 – we discussed it in a paper released that month, and later published in Nature. Our paper is excluded from consideration in this meta-analysis.)

“It’s as if we wanted to know whether smoking causes cancer and so we asked a bunch of new smokers: did you have cancer the day before you started smoking? And what about the day after? If we did this, obviously we’d incorrectly conclude smoking is unrelated to cancer, but we’d be ignoring basic science. The science of diseases and their causes is complex, and it has a lot of surprises for us, but there are appropriate methods to study it, and inappropriate methods. This study intentionally excludes all studies rooted in epidemiology–the science of disease.”

 

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-a-preprint-looking-at-the-impact-of-lockdowns-as-posted-on-the-john-hopkins-krieger-school-of-arts-and-sciences-website/

Pa videcemo, ja citala studiju, ima logike, i neke stvari koje navode sta jeste a sta nije imalo uticaja:

 

Our main conclusion invites a discussion of some issues. Our review does not point out why lockdowns did not have the effect promised by the epidemiological models of Imperial College London (Ferguson et al. (2020). We propose four factors that might explain the difference between our conclusion and the view embraced by some epidemiologists. First, people respond to dangers outside their door. When a pandemic rages, people believe in social distancing regardless of what the government mandates. So, we believe that Allen (2021) is right, when he concludes, “The ineffectiveness [of lockdowns] stemmed from individual changes in behavior: either non-compliance or behavior that mimicked lockdowns.” In economic terms, you can say that the demand for costly disease prevention efforts like social distancing and increased focus on hygiene is high when infection rates are high. Contrary, when infection rates are low, the demand is low and it may even be morally and economically rational not to comply with mandates like SIPOs, which are difficult to enforce. Herby (2021) reviews studies which distinguish between mandatory and voluntary behavioral changes. He finds that – on average – voluntary behavioral changes are 10 times as important as mandatory behavioral changes in combating COVID-19. If people voluntarily adjust their behavior to the risk of the pandemic, closing down non-essential businesses may simply reallocate consumer visits away from “nonessential” to “essential” businesses, as shown by Goolsbee and Syverson (2021), with limited impact on the total number of contacts.47 This may also explain why epidemiological model simulations such as Ferguson et al. (2020) – which do not model behavior endogenously – fail to forecast the effect of lockdowns. Second, mandates only regulate a fraction of our potential contagious contacts and can hardly regulate nor enforce handwashing, coughing etiquette, distancing in supermarkets, etc. Countries like Denmark, Finland, and Norway that realized success in keeping COVID-19 mortality rates relatively low allowed people to go to work, use public transport, and meet privately at home during the first lockdown. In these countries, there were ample opportunities to legally meet with others.

 

Third, even if lockdowns are successful in initially reducing the spread of COVID-19, the behavioral response may counteract the effect completely, as people respond to the lower risk by changing behavior. As Atkeson (2021) points out, the economic intuition is straightforward. If closing bars and restaurants causes the prevalence of the disease to fall toward zero, the demand for costly disease prevention efforts like social distancing and increased focus on hygiene also falls towards zero, and the disease will return. 48 Fourth, unintended consequences may play a larger role than recognized. We already pointed to the possible unintended consequence of SIPOs, which may isolate an infected person at home with his/her family where he/she risks infecting family members with a higher viral load, causing more severe illness. But often, lockdowns have limited peoples’ access to safe (outdoor) places such as beaches, parks, and zoos, or included outdoor mask mandates or strict outdoor gathering restrictions, pushing people to meet at less safe (indoor) places. Indeed, we do find some evidence that limiting gatherings was counterproductive and increased COVID-19 mortality.

 

One objection to our conclusions may be that we do not look at the role of timing. If timing is very important, differences in timing may empirically overrule any differences in lockdowns. We note that this objection is not necessarily in contrast to our results. If timing is very important relative to strictness, this suggests that well-timed, but very mild, lockdowns should work as well as, or better than, less well-timed but strict lockdowns. This is not in contrast to our conclusion, as the studies we reviewed analyze the effect of lockdowns compared but to doing very little (see Section 3.1 for further discussion). However, there is little solid evidence supporting the timing thesis, because it is inherently difficult to analyze (see Section 2.2 for further discussion). Also, even if it can be empirically stated that a well-timed lockdown is effective in combating a pandemic, it is doubtful that this information will ever be useful from a policy perspective. But, what explains the differences between countries, if not differences in lockdown policies? Differences in population age and health, quality of the health sector, and the like are obvious factors. But several studies point at less obvious factors, such as culture, communication, and coincidences. For example, Frey et al. (2020) show that for the same policy stringency, countries with more obedient and collectivist cultural traits experienced larger declines in geographic mobility relative to their more individualistic counterpart. Data from Germany Laliotis and Minos (2020) shows that the spread of COVID-19 and the resulting deaths in predominantly Catholic regions with stronger social and family ties were much higher compared to nonCatholic ones at the local NUTS 3 level.49

 

itd. Vredi procitati.

[ras kass]

Da li u svetu lekari predlazu ultrazvuk srca nakon prelezanog kovida) 

Posto je meni kardiolog preporucio ultrazvuk zbog kovida, uz to endokrinologa, ultrazvuk abdomena I da odemo do dermatologa. 😁

 

Jos kod ortopeda I ginekologa i obrnuo sam igricu. 

[Eddard]

@ras kass

Jedino ako imaš tegobe. 

 

6 hours ago, mmajstor said:

 vakcinaskog lobija 

 

Prosvetli me, kako funkcioniše taj lobi? 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Eddard

[mmajstor]

32 minutes ago, Eddard said:

@ras kass

Jedino ako imaš tegobe. 

 

 

Prosvetli me, kako funkcioniše taj lobi? 

 

Valjda si video kako su se mediji po diktatu prikljucili lovu na vestice samo zato sto jedan selebriti (iza koga ne stoji niko) nije vakcinisan. Niko i ne pominje Ruskinju koja nije pustena jer nije vakcinisana 'pravom' vakcinom. Eto njom sam i ja vakcinisan pa i licno to dozivljavam. 

[Angelia]

55 minutes ago, ras kass said:

Da li u svetu lekari predlazu ultrazvuk srca nakon prelezanog kovida) 

Posto je meni kardiolog preporucio ultrazvuk zbog kovida, uz to endokrinologa, ultrazvuk abdomena I da odemo do dermatologa. 😁

 

Jos kod ortopeda I ginekologa i obrnuo sam igricu. 

Nama predlazu da se vratimo na posao I ne zezamo lekare. 😁

Crtica: tetka (oko 75 tu je negde) naravno dobila antibiotike. Posto ima nekoliko bolesti za koje pije razlicite medikamente ona se zezne pa umesto drugih lekova, popila te antibiotike koji su bili, za svaki slucaj, za 5 dana, u roku od 24 sata, uzas. Kaze spavala 40 sati. Dobro ne bas neprekidno jer je uspela da napravi par maratonskih poziva, ali....

 

I opet cujem kako su ti antibiotici preventiva, tako im lekari govore. Al se nabacase lekova I analiza u SR

 

 

[ras kass]

47 minutes ago, Eddard said:

@ras kass

Jedino ako imaš tegobe. 

 

Pa pritisak 120/90, doduse sa lekovima normalan bude. 

[Jataganac]

2 minutes ago, ras kass said:

 

Pa pritisak 120/90, doduse sa lekovima normalan bude. 

 

Covek je mislio na ginekoloske tegobe

 

 

😉

[ras kass]

8 minutes ago, Sreten Žujkić, penzioner said:

 

Covek je mislio na ginekoloske tegobe

 

 

😉

 

 

[bzzz]

54 minutes ago, mmajstor said:

 

Valjda si video kako su se mediji po diktatu prikljucili lovu na vestice samo zato sto jedan selebriti (iza koga ne stoji niko) nije vakcinisan. Niko i ne pominje Ruskinju koja nije pustena jer nije vakcinisana 'pravom' vakcinom. Eto njom sam i ja vakcinisan pa i licno to dozivljavam. 

Pa valjda nije potreban "diktat" da bi mediji pisali o najsočnijem teniskom skandalu koji se ikada desio. Sledeću priliku će dobiti za pedeset godina da pišu o nečemu tako interesantnom.

[Milenko Puzigaca]

1 hour ago, mmajstor said:

Niko i ne pominje Ruskinju koja nije pustena jer nije vakcinisana 'pravom' vakcinom. Eto njom sam i ja vakcinisan pa i licno to dozivljavam. 

I koji je problem sa tim slučajem? Pa neće neka osoba x, ili osobe, određivati koje će vakcine ili lekovi u kojoj zemlji biti priznate, dozvoljene itd. I sad se razni lekovi u nekim zemljama koriste a u nekima ne, pa? Ako bolesnik x dođe iz zemlje u kojoj je neki lek dozvoljen u zemlju u kojoj nije, kao prvo, nece moci da unese lek u tu zemlju, a kao drugo, ako zavrsi u bolnici bice tretiran kao da nije nikakav lek ni uzimao, nego ce dobiti drugi, koji je u toj zemlji dozvoljen. I?

[mmajstor]

1 hour ago, bzzz said:

Pa valjda nije potreban "diktat" da bi mediji pisali o najsočnijem teniskom skandalu koji se ikada desio. Sledeću priliku će dobiti za pedeset godina da pišu o nečemu tako interesantnom.

 

Valjda nije al steta sto jeste... ajd drzni se da ga podrzis pa da ti ispocitaju da si antivakser a onda si nagraisao, dok ako ga popljujes mozda cak i napredujes. I kako sam ja opet ovde zavrsio u drustvu sa puzigacom.....odoh brze bolje nazad na sport. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by mmajstor

[Akiro]

6 hours ago, implant said:

Edit: ja, u tvom slučaju, ipak tipujem na hotel. KN 95 je bio prilično efikasan kod wuhana i delte, pre mi deluje da se nešto zadržalo u posteljini, a palio si i klimu, ako se dobro sećam.

Bolje se sećaš od mene, odnosno sad si me podsetio na klimu. Taj detalj sam potpuno zaboravio da sam zbog hladnoće u sobi, izazavane mojom željom da vetre dva sata pre mog dolaska i slabih radijatora, i protiv volje morao da uključim klimu.

 

Hebiga, zato smo zbog takvih detalja sada na putu za Tursku i nazad sa ukupno devet noćenja usput plus boravak mesec dana u apartmanu pogubili živce. Prvo da nađeš hotel ili smeštaj koji greje na centralno grejanje na radijatore a ne na klimu ili, još gore, centralnu ventilaciju, koja prolazi kroz sve sobe, je maltene lutrija na koju se izgubi silno vreme. Drugo, da nađeš sobu ili apartman na prvom spratu, kako bi eskivirao lift. Na kraju smo glumili ludake i u lift ulazili sa full face maskama. Plus da najavljuje[ svima da iyvetre pre tvog dolaska, a hotelima i da odblokiraju prozore (valjda zbog učetsalih pokušaja samoubistva skokom sa prozora sada gotovo svi hoteli blokiraju prozore da mogu samo malo na kip da se otvore, deblokadu moraš izričito i na svoju odgovornost unapred da tražiš inače ništa od širom otvaranja i ozbiljnog vetrenja).

 

Organizacija bezbednosti je tek trošila živce (i moju kičmu) da se tona opreme nosi u zilion tura u sobe/apartmane. Gumirani čaršavi da se ne dolazi ni u kakav kontakt sa tuđom posteljinom, pa normalni preko toga, pa velike vreće za spavanje, pa takođe i sopstveni jastuci i jorgani (ukoliko treba još toplije nego što vreće već omogućavaju). Plus dve kvarcne peći tamo gde jednostavno nije moglo ništa drugo da se nađe sem grejanje klimom. Plus ultravioletna germicidna UV-lampa, koja solidno proizvodi i ozon za kakvo-takvo sterilisanje prostora (jedino što moraš bar sat vremena sad baš zimi da vetriš prostor od smrada ozona, ali i to bolje nego ozbiljni ozon generator, koji tri dana ne može da se izvetri i uđe baš u sve pore). Naravno, tone alkohola i drugih sredstava da se izbriše sve sa čime baš mora da se dođe u kontakt. A mimo Corone još i naddušek od memory-pene zbog tvrdih turskih dušeka. Kola, iako velika, napunjena do plafona kao čerga. Ulaz u hotel ili smeštaj kao da se useljavaš.

 

Ovog puta nije bilo propusta u zaštitnim merama na ipak dosta rizičnom putu, ali je koštalo živaca da gotovo poželiš da se već jednom zaraziš. Hbg., kada još uvek ima dosta Delte. jedva čekamo Omikron da potpuno prevlada sa 90+% pa da ga lepo odradimo namenski.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Akiro

[Sunshine State]

 

 

Akiro turista!

 

Bokte, Akiro, ja se pitam kako sam ja jos ziva?!

Ja sva srecna kad stavim KN95, i obrisem ruke onim nekim gelovima alkoholnim - ono, ne moze mi virus nista!

[Eddard]

3 hours ago, mmajstor said:

 

Valjda si video kako su se mediji po diktatu prikljucili lovu na vestice samo zato sto jedan selebriti (iza koga ne stoji niko) nije vakcinisan. 

 

Jao mukica, sve mi ga žao. Nego, jel ga jure mediji po Srbiji i pljuju što je zarazan išao okolo i sejao virus na druge ljude? Jel odgovarao krivično zbog toga? I zašto ne? 

[mmajstor]

5 minutes ago, Eddard said:

 

Jao mukica, sve mi ga žao. Nego, jel ga jure mediji po Srbiji i pljuju što je zarazan išao okolo i sejao virus na druge ljude? Jel odgovarao krivično zbog toga? I zašto ne? 

 

Zato sto znamo gde zivimo. Tj mi, ne znam gde ste vi.

Trebalo je tamo da igra a ovde da odgovara, a s obzirom da se desilo potpuno kontra to znaci da i mi i vi zivimo u sranju samo razlicitom. 

[Eddard]

Tako je. Srbija do Sidneja. 

[Akiro]

14 minutes ago, Sunshine State said:

 

 

Akiro turista!

 

Bokte, Akiro, ja se pitam kako sam ja jos ziva?!

Ja sva srecna kad stavim KN95, i obrisem ruke onim nekim gelovima alkoholnim - ono, ne moze mi virus nista!

Šteta što smo već matori pa smo fiksirani za definisane lokacije, sada Srbiju i Grčku, ubuduće verovatno Srbiju i Tursku. Da smo mlađi, kupio bi umesto gajbe neki komforan polovan RV sa sve plazmom od 75" i dva Quada (četvorotočkaša) i udri na putovanje oko sveta, menjaš samo internet kartice od zemlje do zemlje. Što bi pored neopisive zabave i uživanja da slediš sunce i najbolje plaže imalo u uslovima Corone i neke praktične vrednosti da si svoj u svome. Ali, hebiga, prematori smo za to.

[shonke]

Bolje se sećaš od mene, odnosno sad si me podsetio na klimu. Taj detalj sam potpuno zaboravio da sam zbog hladnoće u sobi, izazavane mojom željom da vetre dva sata pre mog dolaska i slabih radijatora, i protiv volje morao da uključim klimu.
 
Hebiga, zato smo zbog takvih detalja sada na putu za Tursku i nazad sa ukupno devet noćenja usput plus boravak mesec dana u apartmanu pogubili živce. Prvo da nađeš hotel ili smeštaj koji greje na centralno grejanje na radijatore a ne na klimu ili, još gore, centralnu ventilaciju, koja prolazi kroz sve sobe, je maltene lutrija na koju se izgubi silno vreme. Drugo, da nađeš sobu ili apartman na prvom spratu, kako bi eskivirao lift. Na kraju smo glumili ludake i u lift ulazili sa full face maskama. Plus da najavljuje[ svima da iyvetre pre tvog dolaska, a hotelima i da odblokiraju prozore (valjda zbog učetsalih pokušaja samoubistva skokom sa prozora sada gotovo svi hoteli blokiraju prozore da mogu samo malo na kip da se otvore, deblokadu moraš izričito i na svoju odgovornost unapred da tražiš inače ništa od širom otvaranja i ozbiljnog vetrenja).
 
Organizacija bezbednosti je tek trošila živce (i moju kičmu) da se tona opreme nosi u zilion tura u sobe/apartmane. Gumirani čaršavi da se ne dolazi ni u kakav kontakt sa tuđom posteljinom, pa normalni preko toga, pa velike vreće za spavanje, pa takođe i sopstveni jastuci i jorgani (ukoliko treba još toplije nego što vreće već omogućavaju). Plus dve kvarcne peći tamo gde jednostavno nije moglo ništa drugo da se nađe sem grejanje klimom. Plus ultravioletna germicidna UV-lampa, koja solidno proizvodi i ozon za kakvo-takvo sterilisanje prostora (jedino što moraš bar sat vremena sad baš zimi da vetriš prostor od smrada ozona, ali i to bolje nego ozbiljni ozon generator, koji tri dana ne može da se izvetri i uđe baš u sve pore). Naravno, tone alkohola i drugih sredstava da se izbriše sve sa čime baš mora da se dođe u kontakt. A mimo Corone još i naddušek od memory-pene zbog tvrdih turskih dušeka. Kola, iako velika, napunjena do plafona kao čerga. Ulaz u hotel ili smeštaj kao da se useljavaš.
 
Ovog puta nije bilo propusta u zaštitnim merama na ipak dosta rizičnom putu, ali je koštalo živaca da gotovo poželiš da se već jednom zaraziš. Hbg., kada još uvek ima dosta Delte. jedva čekamo Omikron da potpuno prevlada sa 90+% pa da ga lepo odradimo namenski.

Da li su sve ove mere (ili barem deo) primenjivane i pre pandemije?

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

[Akiro]

1 hour ago, shonke said:

Da li su sve ove mere (ili barem deo) primenjivane i pre pandemije?

Ne, jesmo opsesivci, ali ne baš toliki. Manifestovalo se u izbegavanju javnih toaleta (problem, koji btw nisam imao u Nemačkoj već ekskluzivno u Srbiji), ako moguće, i brisanja ruku vlažnim maramicama pre ručka u restoranu, ponekad i stolova, ako ne odgovaraju našim kriterijumima čistoće. Ponekad brisanje ruku vlažnim maramicama posle hvatanja kvaka masovnih javnih prostora i institucija (opet vezano samo za Srbiju). I menjanju garderobe posle jednog nošenja kao i obaveznom tuširanju posle ulaska u kuću pošto u kući sedimo maksimalno komotno u donjem vešu. I nismo smatrali da je Eau de znoj privlačan. Manje-više nešto što je van Srbije normalno, a daleko od Japanaca, koje smo sad možda i nadmašili. Eto da kažemo da smo opsesivci pošto nismo u fazonu američkih filmova da dođeš u odelu i sa laptopom iz subway-a i baciš se sa sve cipelama ravno na krevet. Corona je donela jedan sasvim nov nivo, krajnje naporan i gnjavežan, jer smo inače poprilično hedonisti i ne baš naviknuti na ikakvu disciplinu izuzev ako je za posao nužna i dobro plaćena. Ovo što sad radimo je protiv naše inače hedonističke prirode, a uspeli smo da istreniramo ekstremnu disciplinu. U principu imamo paniku od srpskog državnog zdravstva (nešto što supruga u Švajcarskoj a ja u Nemačkoj nismo imali), možda nam se podsvesno generalno gade Srbija i prosečan Srbijuks pa je Corona to isterala na čistac. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Akiro

[Squabbit]

5 hours ago, Akiro said:

..... u fazonu američkih filmova da dođeš u odelu i sa laptopom iz subway-a i baciš se sa sve cipelama ravno na krevet. .....

 

ali ovo nije fazon iz filmova, to oni rade na redovnoj bazi...
Usrane cipele od kerecih govana, nije frka!!! samo se opruzi

[Darth Bane]

Nesta mi je sumnjivo oko ovih brojki. Recimo Australija, navodno ima preko 90% vakcinisanih duplom dozom, a veliki broj zarazenih I umrlih??? 

Nesto tu ne stima. Ili lazu o procentu vakcinisanih. Ili fajzer slabo stiti. 

Ali posto sam I ja primio fajzer, a do sada (da kucnem u drvo) nije bilo problema (I Jos neki ljudi koje znam) malko mi je sve to cudno. 

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8 hours ago, Akiro said:

Ne, jesmo opsesivci, ali ne baš toliki. Manifestovalo se u izbegavanju javnih toaleta (problem, koji btw nisam imao u Nemačkoj već ekskluzivno u Srbiji), ako moguće, i brisanja ruku vlažnim maramicama pre ručka u restoranu, ponekad i stolova, ako ne odgovaraju našim kriterijumima čistoće. Ponekad brisanje ruku vlažnim maramicama posle hvatanja kvaka masovnih javnih prostora i institucija (opet vezano samo za Srbiju). I menjanju garderobe posle jednog nošenja kao i obaveznom tuširanju posle ulaska u kuću pošto u kući sedimo maksimalno komotno u donjem vešu. I nismo smatrali da je Eau de znoj privlačan. Manje-više nešto što je van Srbije normalno, a daleko od Japanaca, koje smo sad možda i nadmašili. Eto da kažemo da smo opsesivci pošto nismo u fazonu američkih filmova da dođeš u odelu i sa laptopom iz subway-a i baciš se sa sve cipelama ravno na krevet. Corona je donela jedan sasvim nov nivo, krajnje naporan i gnjavežan, jer smo inače poprilično hedonisti i ne baš naviknuti na ikakvu disciplinu izuzev ako je za posao nužna i dobro plaćena. Ovo što sad radimo je protiv naše inače hedonističke prirode, a uspeli smo da istreniramo ekstremnu disciplinu. U principu imamo paniku od srpskog državnog zdravstva (nešto što supruga u Švajcarskoj a ja u Nemačkoj nismo imali), možda nam se podsvesno generalno gade Srbija i prosečan Srbijuks pa je Corona to isterala na čistac. 

Ti naravno kapiraš da je nama sa decom daleko teže, i da mnoge od navedenih predostrožnosti apsolutno neodržive. 
Ja pokušavam da nađem neki održivi balans ali nije lako moj prijatelju. I svakim danom sve teže i ono što se na početku nekako i pristajalo i što smo nekako uspeli konsenzusom da proguramo u našoj maloj familiji vreme je obrusilo do besmisla pa smo lagano ukidali.

Deca naprosto moraju da imaju društveni život što podrazumeva kontakte.

I tako dan po dan, do oko ove NG kad smo zaboli svi osim wife. Računam da smo se dugo i dobro držali sve u svemu.