Feminizam & renesansa: Žene će roditi revoluciju

[Klotzen]

4 hours ago, Eddard said:

 

A šta bi da nemaš te dve nekretnine? U čemu je razlika između čitav život plaćam kiriju nekom strancu i na kraju nemam ništa i 25 godina plaćam banci kredit, ali na kraju imam nešto svoje što mogu da ostavim detetu/prodam i bahatim se pod stare dane/whatever?

 

Često od ljudi iz Srbije čujem taj neki iskonski strah i odbojnost prema kreditima, kao prema iskonskom zlu. I ne razumem. Čitav zapadni svet živi na kreditima. Ne kažem da je to dobro, ali koja je alternativa? Slamarica pa kad sakupiš kupiš? Oće to. Dok ti sakupiš, stan (a i novac) poskupeo tri puta.

 

 

Zašto ga to čini otpornim na ekstremizam? Svaka borba za nešto može da skrene sa plemenitog puta.

 

Meni su Tetka i Teča rekli da nisu kupili stan jer su uvek mislili da će se za par godina vratiti. Ja kontam da je to kod većine starijih gastosa razlog, samo im trulo da to kažu. Za razliku od njih obe sestre kupile kuće u Berlinu i što kažeš makar će deci ostaviti nešto. A mogu i da se vrate kada odu u penziju i da sa penzijama plus kirije za te kuće ovde budu ko lordovi. No mislim da nema povratka ako i njihova deca otanu tamo. Tetka je dobrano u penziji ali ne vraća se iako ovde ima super kuću, jer kaže šta ću ovde kada su mi deca i unuci tamo.

[Dragan]

"You want me to die"

The patriarchy rules in Beijing. The women are suppressed, sometimes subtle, sometimes with brute force. 

But they don't put up with it anymore. Six biographies.

 

Spoiler

Almost 700 million women live in China, from the perspective of the ruling old men's ranks of the Communist Party: Almost 700 million potential problems. Women could get too many children or too few, they could become too confident that they could divorce their men for their rights, which may even love another woman. All of this is the KP by head of state Xi Jinping. While Mao Zedong still had the slogan that women should carry half the sky, i.e. actively get involved in society, XI Jinping 2023 told employees of the All-Chinese women's association, women should continue the traditional values of the Chinese nation and "actively promote a new culture of marriage and the birth of children". Why? To counteract an “aging of the population”. So women should stay at home again and take care of the upbringing of the children. It rules the patriarchy in the China of the KP. But the women defend themselves. Even if it is sometimes dangerous. In 2015, not long after XI's takeover, five young feminists are arrested because they wanted to protest against sexual assault in public transport. The “feminist five” became icons of a new movement that shouldn't actually exist. Women's rights? Chinas slips to 107th place According to the equal opportunities index of the World Economic Forum, China crashed from 69th place in 2012 to 107th place in 2023, behind states such as Malaysia and Senegal. The leadership doesn't even keep the appearance: For the first time since 1997, she has not placed any woman in the current 24-member political office, the power center of China. Of 205 members, only eleven female from 205 members. 

 

What are the consequences of this policy for women?

It takes three quarters of a year and that countless inquiries need to find a handful of the 700 million Chinese women who dare to speak openly about their everyday life - women's rights are now as sensitive as a topic. A survivor of compulsory sterilizations during one-child policy. An activist who wants to raise other women to more self -confidence. A woman who has twins with another woman. An entrepreneur who wants to stay childless. An author who is fighting in court to decide when she can become a mother. And four agricultural workers who are still fighting for bare survival. There are completely different résumés. What the women combines is their anger. Much of what women tell cannot be written. Anyone who talks to foreign media about delicate topics threatens to intimidation. And yet: Here a few of those women who would like to banish the Chinese government would like to banish back to the Trust, about their everyday life, their fears, their needs. For example, there is the mother, Teng Youxia, who has hardly left the house for years. That it can hardly leave it.

 

The survivor

Her son was twenty -nine days old when the men came home to Teng Youxia. The eight, nine nine officials from the local planning authority blocked their husbands, then they surrounded their bed. Beijing command. Teng Youxia, she remembers, lay there, as if paralyzed, of fear, of helplessness. What should she do? Resistance, she knew that, would have been pointless. The officials used a spiral so that she could not get a second child, the second child she had wished for. 

That was 1991. 

In the more than three decades since then, Chinese family policy has changed. However, in order to understand how extreme the government still intervenes in life and the bodies of the Chinese women, you have to start with one-child policy and its often cruel follow. With the story of Teng Youxia. Through one-child policy, introduced at the end of the 1970s, children's wars in China became a seamlessly controlled state matter. The government in Beijing saw the children -poor industrialized countries as a model, unlike under Mao, too many children were suddenly considered backward. Nationwide, officials now wrote down pedantic which woman became pregnant when and who used which contraceptives. If a family expected the second child, there was a threat of high fines, job loss or apartment withdrawal. Fled a woman, the unborn child in the stomach, then the officers of her hometown chased her through the whole country. Between 1971 and 2013, Chinese doctors made around 336 million abortions, which showed figures from the Ministry of Health. An estimated 286 million women received a spiral between 1980 and 2009. Many under compulsion. Just like Teng Youxia. 

The pain began with the spiral used under coercive 

For them, the pain began with the spiral. She bleed, her stomach floated. For months she was only in bed, she remembers a meeting in a city in East China. Even if your name can be mentioned, the exact place of the meeting must remain secret. The authorities have warned you not to speak to the media. Now she is hiding. The windows are darkened with towels, Teng is under a thick ceiling. A woman at the end of fifty, short hair, quiet voice, her body looks stiff and heavy. A scar pulls vertically over her swollen belly, in several places you can see scar growth and bumps. At the end of the foot there are medication in four rice bags, a handful of it swallows a day. On the night cabinet, she has made a thick stack of doctor's letters, ultrasound pictures and CT scans. A documentation of your suffering. In the first few months after the procedure, she could not get up or take care of her child. Talking about this time, her eyes fill with tears. "I was never able to wear my son in my arms." The officials wanted to prevent them from getting a second child. In fact, they already robbed her of being a mother with her first child. In 1997, six years after the brutal intervention, she went to a hospital for the first time. She hasn't been able to work there for years. In the clinic, the doctors took the spiral - but that it was broken and fragments remained, they hunted. When the pain did not disappear and Teng drove to another hospital, the doctors diagnosed "several dark shadows" in their pelvis there, so it is in a doctor's letter. Parts of the spiral had drilled into their uterus like fishing hooks. The doctors removed them, but some splinters were immigrated to the abdomen and the bladder. Teng is incontinent today.

For years, the local government had blocked their requests for pain and suffering, and they also didn't want to grant their operation that could remove all splinters. It was only in 2013 that she was able to speak to a representative of the local commission for family planning. She says how he said to her: "It is our responsibility, we have to wear her." But when there was a hearing, the head of the authorities did not even join in. Nothing happened again. In 2016 Teng finally found a doctor who promised to remove all parts. But shortly before the operation, the Commission men appeared in the hospital and threatened, the Teng, the doctors, says. The operation failed. Because an operation would have proven the guilt of the local authorities of their suffering, Teng believes: "They prefer to die."

 

They wanted to stop 20 men from escaping to Beijing 

When she wanted to travel to Beijing a few months later, hoping to get help there, in the capital, twenty men caught her at her home station. Agents, instructed by the local family planning commission to put them under house arrest. A few weeks later she escaped her, hiding in another city and went to the hospital there. But again they found the officials, and again the doctors suddenly refused to treat them. Hundreds of francs cost their medication every month, and has paid tens of thousands of francs over the years. Your husband works in a factory, a large part of his salary, spend on your medical costs. He is in the conversation, in the end, when you left Teng's room, he says: As soon as his wife's doctors had removed all the foreign bodies, he wanted to leave her. His strength is also used up. The National Health Commission claims that Teng received compensation in 2002, the equivalent of CHF 96,000. Teng says the local authority has never paid the sum. Her suspicion: the officials put the money themselves. Not all the details that Teng tells can be checked. But in the documents on their bedside table, more than half a dozen doctors confirm the findings. On her cell phone, Teng shows photos and videos of men in police uniforms and in civilian, which they push at stations and hospitals. Teng tried to have her injuries recognized in front of various dishes and offices. Backers appeared before a court appointment and dragged them away. They later threatened their son on the phone. He is now thirty -three years old, his girlfriend has separated, she has nothing to do with a family that defends itself against the state. Teng accuses herself that her son, whom she neglected as a child, was now alone as an adult. The one-child policy has not only brought suffering through countless families, today the whole country suffers from it: China is missing the offspring. The billions have been shrinking since 2022. China is likely to grow old before it gets rich; by 2035 alone, the number of sixty year olds should increase from 300 million to 400 million people. A demographic time bomb. Late, far too late, the state abolished one-child policy. Chinese have been allowed to get up to three children since 2021. And yet the birth rate is about 1.1 children per woman afterwards - it is 1.39 in Switzerland. In addition, the strict birth control has mixed up the gender balance: Many families have abolished female fetuses for decades - in the hope of a regular owner. In 2024 there were almost 30 million more men than women in China. Suddenly everything is different, suddenly the party wants to commit their subjects to children. For example, it complicates vasectomies with which men keep preventing. The intervention is not officially prohibited, but many hospitals still reject it for fear of the authorities. But the KP continues to find ways to control women's desire to have children.

 

The fighter

When Xu Zaozao entered a hospital in Beijing in 2018, she was thirty years old and wanted to concentrate on her job as a freelance author in the next few years. A child? Maybe later. Therefore, doctors should now remove and freeze egg cells so that they can fertilize them later. Normality in many countries around the world. But the employees in the Beijinger hospital sent Xu away. A doctor advised her to get married soon and get children naturally. XU remembers: "I was incredibly angry." Men in China, whether married or not, may freeze their sperm. Single women, on the other hand, are prohibited from freezing impartial egg cells. The national health commission said in 2021 that the method was more invasive than in men, false hopes could arouse false hopes and further delay. The usual leaning when arguments are missing. Many women in China bow. Others avoid the problem by going abroad to have the procedure carried out there. Problems and unpleasant rules are often avoided in China with money and privileges. Xu Zaozao was angry. She started researching. And she recognized how much women are disadvantaged when it comes to whether and when they want to get a child. She decided to complain. The hospital violated their personal rights and their physical rights. Whenever the procedure is concerned, she has been called Xu Zaozao, a pseudonym since then that has retained a certain anonymity in private life. Even many of their colleagues do not connect them with the case that produces headlines like this with every new court decision: "single and no longer very young - women rely on freezing egg cells as" repent pill "". 

The courts as the last hope for women 

In China In a country without free elections, dishes are the last places in which politics can still be questioned. At least in theory, because of course China is not a rule of law. It remains dangerous to complain in China. XI Jinping has arrested unpleasant lawyers, the party checked the courts. Judges who have judgments that are not in the interests of the system will also be released or lose their pension claims. Sometimes the system restricts women in their rights in a subtle way. So also with XU Zaozao. The procedure was repeatedly kidnapped, as she tells. And so Xu has lost a lot of time to be able to decide for yourself whether and when she becomes a mother. Spring 2024, a café in Guangzhou. Xu is now thirty -lasting years old, that day she is cold, she wears a mask that dampens her voice. She speaks loudly, but carefully choose her words. The lawsuit she levied six years ago has still not been decided. XU is lucky at least in one point: While parents in China are often pushing for a quick wedding and offspring, their parents support them. XU has a friend, but no wedding plans, she says: «Love and marriage are two things. And I have not yet decided whether I want a child. So far I have not been missing. What I want, on the other hand, is a choice. » In July 2022, a Beijing court rejected her lawsuit and appealed. The judge announced a final decision for the end of 2023, then it was said in spring 2024. It was August 2024 until XU received the news that her objection was rejected. The procedure is therefore officially completed. She still doesn't know how she wants to continue. "But I'm certainly not giving up."

 

The outsider

A colorfully furnished living room with a chandelier and large dining table in the South China city of Guiyang, the six -month -old twin brothers play on the floor with a play game. Lili Wang, bob cut, narrow waist, constant chatter tone, strokes both over the head. Then she waves to her mother, who sits next to the playpen. The mother knows the story she will tell you right away. But not the nanny that cleans up in the next room. So Wang prefers to leave the apartment. The story is about how Lili Wang and her partner Xinli chen became parents of twins. A taboo in China. Wang, thirty -one, drives the elevator into the ground floor, crosses two pedestrian bridges, then entered a bar in which dense smoke hangs in the early morning. She begins to tell on a sofa in a dark corner. Wang and Xinli Chen had met about acquaintances in 2021. They chatted and got on well, soon became a couple. A year later, they decided to get children, even if they violate the Chinese law: two women are not allowed to raise children here. Wang therefore only tells her story under one condition: her real name has to remain secret, as does that of her partner. 

Under XI Jinping Patriarchy, homosexuals come under even more pressure 

Homosexuality is not forbidden in China, but couples are not allowed to get married. And since State and Party leader XI Jinping in 2012, the freedom for homosexuals has been shrinking more and more. The government propaganda represents homosexuality as a western import, LGBTQ groups are susceptible to the state press to infiltrate the country. Queer discussion forums are censored on the Internet, the representation of homosexuality and "too female men" is banished from television. The Beijinger LGBT Center had to close in 2023. The management spoke of "force majeure", an indication of official pressure. It was already clear to her that Wang is bisexual. There she also went out with girls. "But I have clear conditions, I like masculine girls," says Wang, "if you have longer hair than me, that's nothing for me." After the university, she still married a man, also to satisfy her parents' expectations. A mistake. "He was a cool person when I invited friends home, he didn't like that." After a year they separated. Two years later, in the first Corona year, she met Xinli Chen. When Wang's mother saw a photo of both on social media, she asked her daughter whether the short -haired Xinli chen was a boy or a girl. «I was honest with her and said that I wanted to be with Chen. My mother cried for three days. »

Like Wang, her girlfriend Chen was married to a man before. A fake marriage that many homosexual couples enter into China to avoid the pressure of the parents. Wang says: "He was gay, and even if the parents didn't know it, everyone suspected it." He divorced because he wanted to buy an apartment that should not be entitled to. After that, Chen came opposite her mother. Unmarried women in China have no access to artificial fertilization by law. Therefore, Wang turned to a clinic that offers fertilization in secret. Tips for such providers usually receive from private groups on social media in which Wang is also active. These are partially tolerated in China as long as Beijing does not urge new hardness. As in the mafia film, she picked up an employee and connected her eyes to go to the laboratory. Her cell phone had to leave her at home. Her girlfriend had previously blown up her to keep her mouth. Even if she hardly succeeded with nervousness. 

Looked for your own parents for fear 

The equivalent of CHF 4,400 paid Wang and Chen for the sperm donation, which was coordinated through the clinic. Wang shows a document on her cell phone in which the sperm donor imagines for her children. School certificates can be seen, photos of excursions and his real name. As a special feature, a double eyelid fold is listed, which makes the eyes appear larger. Most Chinese have almond -shaped eyes with a simple upper eyelid fold. Once they met the donor. Wang says they wanted to make sure that he looks as good as in the photos. It should be big and his skin color as white as possible, a light skin is considered a ideal of beauty in China. The hormone treatment worked for the first time. Wang has held the double twins, the eggs come from her partner. So both wanted to be involved as strongly as possible. Since her friend has a budget registration in Guiyang, she is legally the mother. Without this registration, which should once prevent the rural exodus, Wang's children in the city would have poorer access to social benefits and, for example, could not graduate from the city. When registering for birth, the police officer asked the father in the local authority, but Chen said that she had drunk too much and did not remember. The policeman just laughed. Wang's mother knows that she lives with her partner. But Wang lied to her parents in one thing: the parents believe that a child of her and a child was from her friend. «I held both, but my father doesn't understand that. If he knew that they were not my blood, he would not accept the children. » When her family comes to visit, she clears Chen's childhood photos. They should not discover the similarity of the children with the partner. «My father no longer kissed the children until I told the emergency lie. »

 

The workers

A small marketplace in Jiyuan in Central China, right in front of a factory, a white-blue box. The cell phones come here. The terrain is rebuilt with a fence, workers disappear behind the workers or come out, and access is prohibited for strangers. Security personnel check the ID cards, around half of them are women. They scurry across the marketplace, on the stands of which corn, apples and bras are offered without temples, a bestseller here because metal is prohibited in the factory directly behind the stands. This is still the slightest problem for the workers with the ironless bra. Four of them roped directly into the street with the food stalls during the freezing levels that it has that morning. Now the four mid -thirties crouch in a small restaurant, all of them have left their thick winter coats. "Four pasta soup with tomato and egg," calls one of the friends towards the kitchen. This is quick, costs the equivalent of only one franc and warms. You have to be back in an hour. As they spoon the soup, they tell about their everyday life and everything that makes it so difficult. And why you still have no other choice. From eight in the morning to eight in the evening, the women work five to six days, including two overtime hours a day, to achieve the quantities that their bosses give them. Your employer, Foxconn, is the largest supplier of Apple. In the factory, screw the cell phones together, which are delivered there in individual parts. 

Inhumane working conditions throughout China 

Again and again the shattering work circumstances from the factories from the Taiwanian manufacturer are known: workers who collapse on the factory premises after weeks of work without free day, who work seventy hours and more during the week, whose lunch break will often be cut together for a few minutes, because they only perform the same work process in an hour and not sixty times as other colleagues. There are also ongoing workers' protests due to wage disputes that are put down with the help of state power. Foxconn explains that they have done a lot in recent years to improve the conditions. Doch die Fabrikaufseher sehen es nicht gerne, wenn ihre Mitarbeiter mit Journalisten sprechen. Therefore, a conversation without too many personal details, there in the small kitchen, where the supervisors don't look. Often, male migrant workers from distant provinces work in Chinese factories, which are unbound, young and alone. At Foxconn, on the other hand, many women come from the region, they are considered more reliable because they have children and are looking for stability. The basic salary is not particularly high at the equivalent of CHF 260 per month, but most of them can drive to their families in the evening or at the weekend, and they are insured with the company - this is also an advantage: the state health insurance usually only provides low sums. After fifteen years, the workers are also entitled to a pension that is at least enough for an economical country life. This is still the exception in China. To survive in old age, most of them have to work as long as they can physically.

 

For the four women in the kitchen, the grandparents are now taking care of the children. She did not have to ask party leader Xi Jinping for the second child, that is not unusual in the country. Even during the one-child policy, farmers who were the first to get a daughter still had another attempt: to maybe give birth to a son. The children are important to women, especially their schooling, one of the four says: "Anyone who is not careful at school will later stand here in the factory and screw on cell phones." 13.4 million Chinese took part in the large school leaving exam last year, in order to apply for the few hundred thousand places to the top universities. Children in the cities have the better schools and teachers, and the parents can afford tutoring. You get a place. Children from the east coast are also approved with the same performance because universities preferably allow students from their own city. It is not fair. Children from the hinterland often have a look. In the food kitchen, a woman tells with a strubulent hair: «I work here in order to be able to pay my children a better education. I save most of it for you. » Her family has just bought an apartment in a small town near the factory, the interest is high, the school costs are even higher. Her daughter is in primary school, but already does a dance training for the equivalent of a few thousand francs a year. At home, she says, would help her parents, "but they are too old, they don't understand anything about today's education". After all: her husband, who is more at home, occasionally help. But he only tidies if you please. Feminism, women's rights, prefer to make a career than get children, they don't know such topics here. In the big cities, everyone talked about the children from the middle class for a while, who now wanted to "lie down flat" - slang for getting out of the performance society, moving to the country or wanting to go back to the parents. Because the pressure is so large and the reward is no longer safe. You don't want to work as much, looking for new life models. This is outrageous for China. It sounds like mockery for women in the kitchen. You don't even know a free afternoon. The four now compare the good grades of their children, diligently makes them proud. At some point, that is the dream, your descendants could create the ascent to the middle class. "But that's not a thing that can be created in one or two generations." The women have now eaten, pay them. You have to go back to the factory in which you dream of a better life, be it for your grandchildren.

 

The strong

A Hutong-Gasse in the center of Beijings, here are the traditional courtyards of the capital with bricks and red lanterns at the entrances. A cold Wednesday evening, 7 p.m. Neon light and dance music lure tourists and party guests into the pubs. Young women push themselves through the door of a bar, they pass the counter, upstairs upstairs. Yvonne, a slim woman with fine facial features, is waiting on the first floor. The young visitors carefully look around the tiny sales room, which is less than ten steps. Then sit on the floor between two clothes rails, ten women, closely together. They are here because they want to be strong. A young woman with glasses and braid says: «I feel fat, really ugly. And I know how others look at me. » Her neighbor can say her: “What do you talk about there? You have a pretty face. Why do you create what others say? " She puts an arm around her shoulder. A student says: "You can only change you, you have to love yourself." Yvonne listens and nods. That is why she invites women here once a week: they should encourage themselves to listen. There are no longer many places in China. Yvonne says: «At first many are shy, but everyone has something commendable. The participants should learn to compliment themselves. » The thirty -year -old studied German, so she bought the name Yvonne; She later worked for a German car manufacturer. But the office job was not for her. Monotonous processes, strict hierarchies. Now she has several bars and the vintage shop over a pub in which the women's round meets a week. They talk about love, jobs, the social pressure that is on them. The narrowing of the room conveys a feeling of security. Yvonne says: «I noticed that my customers look in the mirror and are unhappy. Really beautiful girls who say that their arms are too thick, their hips too wide, their legs too short. »

The group on the first floor is mixed. A drag queen puts on in a corner, she wears a tight dress and listens without a word. Yvonne says that she does not see herself as a feminist that “more radical” women were looking for other groups. Not to discuss all topics, she says, that also ensures a certain security. This is how it works in conversation. She knows what she can say and what shouldn't. She avoids sensitive topics. A feminist movement was created in China in the 1990s. Women protested against unequal treatment and, completely unknown in China, even brought the protest to the street at some point: they put on wedding dresses and smeared them with red color, that was in 2010. Or they stormed male toilets and demanded more washrooms for women. Then XI Jinping came to power in 2012. He no longer tolerates the feminists. Femen clubs, formerly tolerated by the government, were closed. Online movements such as #metoo are censored. Activists who wanted to distribute stickers to grapes in the bus and trains were locked away. The arrest of the “Feminist Five” 2015 was a warning to 700 million women in the country. Nothing hates the KP as much as groups that are not under their total control.

 

For Beijing, the “Western ideology” is to blame The government in Beijing blames a “western ideology” that more and more women do not want to get married. In 2024, the number of marriage has fallen to the lowest level since 1980. Only 6.1 million couples married, less than half as many as ten years earlier, at the same time failed every second marriage. Divoracies celebrate women online, they comment: "All the best for rebirth!" And then there is the topic of violence. Again and again cases like the “woman in chains” become known. That was in 2022. At that time, a blogger reported the fate of a mentally ill Chinese who had been sold to a man in the country. She had to give birth to eight children, lived chained in a hut. When their suffering became public, the local authorities tried to cover up the case. But internet users always brought the topic into the top ten of the most clicked articles. Or the brutal attack on a woman in northern China in August 2022. A man put his arm around her shoulder without being asked, and when she gave him away, he struck. Other men dragged the woman onto the street. Recordings from a surveillance camera showed how the group hit it. All of this reinforced the protests that had started in 2021 when the Chinese government in the fight against the high divorce rates had introduced a thirty -day "cooling period" before the divorce could be submitted. This is intended to make hasty separations make it difficult. In the room above the bar, the women pack together after two hours, promise to stay in touch. Yvonne will continue to invite women, until their mission is fulfilled: «I want women and men to be equal. Everyone has the right to feel good. "

 

The independent

A luxury shopping center in Shanghai, an eight-story labyrinth from perfumeries and boutiques. Stephanie, sunglasses, blond-colored hair, orders a sugared tea, then she shows photos from her social media account. A sunrise in the Gobi desert, a journey on the “Chinese Route 66”, a highway through Ningxia in northwestern China. After ten years in the hotel industry, she has started her own business and now lives the life that she has already dreamed of as a fourteen -year -old. With thirty -two she feels as free as a woman can feel in China. Stephanie has been running an online trade for cleaning agents for animals since 2023. Disinfection spray with essential oils for the equivalent of thirteen francs or plant -based cleaning foam for seven francs. Success is uncertain, it has not yet had many customers. For security, she already has a plan B: an apprenticeship as a cook. Then she could open a catering business with friends, and Barista training will soon do her. She hardly seems to feel financial pressure. She has reserves and her mother, who can help.

 

Huge pressure on the children and the parents Stephanie, who asks to only use the name that she gave herself to dealing with foreigners, is married. She says of her marriage: "It is important to have the same ideas as a couple." And Stephanie and her husband were clear from the start: they don't want children. In China this is a taboo break. After the school or university graduation, getting married as quickly as possible and getting children was the norm for a long time. As a rule, grandparents took over the care and gave up their jobs - as with the workers from Central China. Children continue the family line in the Confucian social system, they have to respect and maintain their parents. Childlessness is considered misfortune. Stephanie says children are "tiring and difficult". She describes herself as a follower of the "ideology of iron dinkism". Dink, or Ding Ke in Chinese, stands for «Double Income, No Kids». Both spouses earn, but have no offspring. According to official population from 2022, 188 million dink families are available in China.

In dem Café erzählt Stephanie von Freundinnen, die kaum noch Zeit hätten seit der Geburt ihrer Kinder. One said that she felt "as imprisoned for ten years". Another had just divorced and voluntarily gave up custody. Stephanie in turn is not so open to her friends with her self -chosen childlessness. "It feels like an invisible wall, a red line that must not be exceeded." But she stands by her decision. She talks about the huge pressure on the children to write good grades - and about the high costs: China is the most expensive country in the world at the level of income to South Korea to raise a child. On average, according to a Beijing Institute for Population Research, Chinese parents pay around CHF 65,000 from birth to the 18th birthday of their child, such as 6.3 times the gross domestic product per capita; For parents in the financial metropolis of Shanghai, the costs amount to CHF 120,000. To get to a good school, you also have to rent or own an apartment in the right district, which costs a few thousand francs a month again. In addition to school lessons, many students have tutors or music lessons every day. Often for sixty, seventy francs an hour. In addition, there are the costs for leisure activities, even playgrounds cost money in China. Since the economy also breaks in, says Stephanie: “If everyone competes for the few means, it becomes bloody. I think that people should get three children now. » And once a woman has received a child, Stephanie emphasizes that it is the end of her own career: from the perspective of companies, women from thirty -thirty are not worth anything. In China there is even a term for this: "Curse of the thirty -five". Employees of this age are more expensive than young professionals and they want to do less overtime. So they are rarely set. Stephanie believes in the well-being of childlessness that she reports on her social media account and encourages others. She writes: "It is really a luxury to be able to determine your own time and energy." But many women also wonder online whether they should really trust their partner. Without a vasectomy, men could still change and later marry a younger woman to become a father. Stephanie says: "I trust my husband to force him to intervene, too extreme." In a forum she writes: "The happiness of married women was dependent on others for a long time." That was over. "Now we have the ability to control our life ourselves." This is almost political resistance in China.

 

 

[Dragan]

When young stars like Britney Spears became a free game

Male sexism disguised as a female self -determination: 

A book shows how media in the nineties lower women because of supposed physical flaws. Is that better today?

 

Spoiler

Most of the people interested the reporter their breasts. Actress Lindsay Lohan had just turned 18 when the "Rolling Stone" magazine "Delache Stone" dedicated a portrait in 2004. Title: "Hot, Ready and Legal". When entering the text, the journalist pondered whether her bust size was real. Yes, he said, because he looked exactly and hugged Lohan to say goodbye. Not only men allowed themselves such an attacking behavior. A year earlier, star journalist Diane Sawyer asked 22-year-old Britney Spears in a television interview about her virginity. The conversation was like interrogation; Sawyer bored for intimate details and made her visibly ashamed counterpart to cry. A little later, the world watched live how Britney Spears suffered a nervous breakdown. The cameras even stopped even when she obviously hid in a hairdressing salon, shaved her head and later hit a car with an umbrella.

 

In the nineties, all of this triggered hardly any indignation. The Celebrity cult was at its boiling point, young women like Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, Mischa Barton, Britney Spears or Lindsay Lohan were considered a media freedom. Paparazzi photographed them between their legs when they climbed out of cars, and nothing did the gossip magazines and tabloids rather than reporting them with malice and malicious joy. 

Media criticism - afterwards 

The public grazed at the MUG Shots, the pictures from the police post when a star had been arrested for inconsistent behavior. Just as popular: close -ups of blemishes, bacon rolls or cellulite. "She got fat!" The gossip magazines screamed and circled with red alleged flaws. The British tabloid "Daily Mail" created a "Sidebar of Shame". The young women had to be thin, as if they were not physically granted them. The size of the clothes zero, Size Zero, was invented and was considered the declared goal. They were aware that the media crossed borders. In the “Guardian”, the former gossip columnist of the “New York Daily News”, Ben Widdicomb, said that it was clear to everyone at the time “that we should go to Britney better because of her mental state”. They also knew how badly Lohan and Hilton were doing; At times he feared that they could die. It didn't care. Widdicomb is self -critical, but also says: "If the thousandth story is written about Britney, it has to do with the fact that there is an audience for it." If you criticize the zero years, you also have to talk about the great appetite for such articles on the part of the readership. 

The image of women was also miserable in Switzerland 

In order to be exposed to the public, the young women didn't even have to be famous. In 2001, Stefan Raab repeatedly played the excerpt from the application video of a Miss candidate in his show "TV Total", in which she said: "My name is Lisa Loch and I am 16 years old." Half the nation knocked on the thighs with laughter. In Switzerland, no young woman was probably as brutally under the bikes as Gunvor, who reached the last place at the ESC in 1998. In order to make humiliation even greater, her private life was dragged out, it was about prostitution and debts. She didn't find a job, "nobody wanted me anymore during this time," Gunvor once said in the "Aargauer Zeitung". It was "hell".

Some women participated. Tingle through reality and dating shows, and the tragic their appearances, the higher the ratings. One of them was Nadja Abd el Farrag, who had just died. She once let herself weigh her chest on a TV show, and the audience should guess the weight. It was a low point for the medium of television as for Abd el Farrag. Nevertheless, afterwards she said it was fun. 

The pornography of pop culture 

It is not surprising. The American journalist Sophie Gilbert shows in her new book “Girl on Girl - How Pop Culture Turned a Generation of Women Against Themsselves” how women in the nineties had sold male sexism as female self -determination. To make yourself an object was considered a "female empowerment", whoever defended himself against it as a prudish. Gilbert speaks of the "pornographization of pop culture". Because angry women like Sinéad O’Connor or Courtney Love were too strenuous, the music industry replaced the "Riot Grrrls" from the punk scene with "Girl Power". This feminism was easy to care for and therefore harmless. This was particularly true of the Spice Girls, which despite “Female Empowerment” slogans were never more than a product of male marketing strategists.

 

Because of course young women had primarily to be sexy for the male eye. Sex was the currency of the zero years and omnipresent. The American Apparel label campaigned with teenagers in short schoolgirl jupes that looked into the camera lasciviously. It was undisguised Lolita erotic, today you would say that fashion is sold here with child abuse printed on high-gloss paper. But at that time it hardly bothered anyone, on the contrary. American Apparel was the favorite label of the hipsters, the porn chic by founder Dov Charney was considered cool. The star of the scene was photographer Terry Richardson, whose explicit, only so steaming pictures of teenagers were considered "provocative" before sex. The American fashion chain Abercrombie & Fitch interviewed the porn star Jenna Jameson for her magazine. Because, hey, female self -determination! How lying the thing with the “Female Empowerment” was in 2004. It was not even a young woman, but a seasoned musician. During the joint appearance during the break of the American Superbowl, Justin Timberlake Janet Jackson tore down the top. He did the more violent than planned and exposed Jackson's left chest. The American public foamed. Although Jackson - not Timberlake - immediately apologized for the breath. "Nipplegate" brought her career to a standstill. It was steeply uphill with that of Justin Timberlake. And today? Although a lot has improved, Gilbert is not too hopeful. The Trad Wifes, which celebrate housewife life à la 50s, strive as well as the British only fans star Lily Phillips, who has sex with 100 men in one day.

 

 

[RatzenStadt]

3 hours ago, DameTime said:

Hermange takođe govori o tome da je moguće voleti muškarce (pojedince) u svom životu, a kritikovati muškarce kao socijalnu grupu (tj. ono što deo njih čini ženama). Ovo je ono što ja stalno pričam - to što sam svesna društvenih implikacija, ne znači da u mom životu ne postoje muškarci koje volim i cenim. I obrnuto, to što postoje muškarci koje volim i cenim, ne znači da neću govoriti o sistemskoj mizoginiji i nasilju muškaraca nad ženama. 

 

 

Zena je bukv nazvala svoj esej "Mrzim muskarce", i elaborirala dalje idejom da je u redu mrzeti muskarce. I ne samo to, nego da je oslabadjajuce , te da je u redu napraviti izuzetke od pojedinih muskaraca. Svog muza je u jednom intervjuu doslovno nazvala "izuzetkom". Jadniku vrv drzi jaja u tegli za tursiju.

Sto se mene tice, svako moze gajiti koje god emocije zeli (prema drugima), svesno i nesvesno. Isto tako i Polin, nek' pise sta hoce.

Pak, tvoja tvrdnja da je mizandrija imaginarna, fantazmicna stvar u glavama muskaraca, i da ne postoji ni u jednoj denominaciji feminizma, onako, vredja intelekt i cinjenicno gledano je laz,
Pomenuta knjiga je nazvana "oznazujucom" u fem telektualnim krugovima.

 

3 hours ago, DameTime said:

Čak i da upoznate ženu koja stvarno mrzi muškarce (kao grupu) iz dna duše, zapitajte se zašto je to tako? 

 

 

😄

Edited 9 hours ago by RatzenStadt

[DameTime]

 

1 minute ago, RatzenStadt said:

Pak, tvoja tvrdnja da je mizandrija imaginarna, fantazmicna stvar u glavama muskaraca, onako, vredja intelekt i cinjenicno gledano je laz.
Pomenuta knjiga je nazvana "oznazujucom" u fem telektualnim krugovima.

 

Uglavnom i jeste. Ne zato što ne može da postoji, već zato što pozivanje na mizandriju dolazi kao gotovo automatski odgovor na borbu protiv mizoginije. Čime se implicira da su te dve stvari jednake, a nisu, niti će ikada biti, što sam obrazložila u prethodnom postu. 

 

[McLeod]

Isto tako moze da se kaze da je mizoginija u vasim glavama i da vam se mensplejnuje kako femicidi, sikaniranje zena, manja zastupljenost u upravljackim strukturama nema veze sa mizoginijom nego individualnim faktorima i osobinama zena koje su zrtve.

 

Sto bi bilo jelte komicno da nije tragicno, ali to isto vazi za mizandriju. Ona je vrlo stvarna i predstavlja iracionalni odgovor na mizoginiju.

 

Za trenutak da se izmestimo na teren homofobije i mrznje prema gejevima, zamislite koliko bi bilo smesno da postoji ista dinamika i povratna sprega i u tom odnosu pa da pricamo o heterofobiji.

 

Da bi feministkinje pobedile, one muskarcima treba da otvore oci, ne da idu djonom kao pojedine.

[DameTime]

Ne može nikako da bude isto, ponoviću, između mizoginije i mizandrije ne stoji znak jednakosti. Pre svega jer je prvi fenomen zasnovan celom sistemu koji ga podržava - patrijarhatu. Dok se drugi svodi na pojedinačne primere ili grupe pojedinaca.

 

Oni se prenaglašavaju, kako bi se stvorio lažni osećaj jednakosti između mizoginije i mizandrije. Ovo ne znači da se ja slažem kako treba mrzeti muškarce, ili da ih ja mrzim, nadam se da je to jasno. 

 

Ne treba feministkinje da "otvaraju oči", već da se teži promeni sistema, kako ne bismo dolazile situaciju da "otvaramo oči" muškarcima (ili ženama) koji su već formirane osobe.

[Mina D. Harker]

Mizoginija može da ubije (i ubija), mizandrija šta, može da povrijedi osjećanja?

Potpuno isto.

 

Margaret Atwood je napisala:

 

Men are afraid women will laugh at them,

women are afraid men will kill them.

[McLeod]

Mizandrija i mizoginija su po definiciji iste pojave, to sto posledice jedne i druge nisu iste je sa tog psiholoskog stanovista potpuno nebitno.

 

Borba protiv patrijarhata nije mizandrija niti mora da je ukljucuje, ali je to cesto slucaj, zbog cega se i ide stranputicom.

[BattleBender]

5 hours ago, Mina D. Harker said:

 

Ali ajde malo da proširimo. Muškarci (nazovimo tu veliku amorfnu grupu patrijarhatom), vole da svoja mišljenja ili još preciznije, vjerovanja pretvaraju u zakone.

 

Ovo je kao da kazes da homo sapiens voli da se nabode iglom u venu, i da svoje drogiranje pretvori u destruktivan nacin zivota po sebe i druge. I to je ono sto sustinski opisuje homo sapiensa.
Bukvalno konstrukt koji ima istu logiku, i da dodje vanzemaljac svojim svemirkskim brodom iznad zemlje i da trazi analizu nase civilizacije, ta 2 lajna, logicke zajebancije, bi bile podjednako validne logicki. Kada bi dobio takav report.

------

Nacin na koji, u nekim od postova, odstupate od zdravog razuma, elementarne i esencijalne smislenosti prilikom argumentovanja, je nesto sto je najveca kontrausluga samoj borbi za zene, i vas pravedniji status (koje bi trebalo da dobijete i zasluzujete ga).
Samo nastavite masovno da radite to, i nece biti tog najgoreg i najsovinistickijeg muskarca koji ce vas mrzeti koliko ce vas mrzeti prosecna zena za nekih n decenija, kao predstavnik generacije zena koje ce ponovi biti nepravedno i nefer diskrimisane. Samo sada vise zaslugom zena prethodnih generacijak, koje su svakodnevno svojim konstruktima vredjale svaciju inteligenciju.... over the time.

Ne postoji koncept, fenomen, pravac i ideja koja se ne moze fatalno kompromitovati ako se isto to provlaci svakodnevno kroz totalno odsustvo zdravog razuma i deplasiranosti.
Zene na globalnom nivou nemaju status kakve bi trebalo da imaju kada u obzir uzmemo civlizacijski razbog, mislim da ce 99% normalnih oko toga sloziti. Ali to nije zato sto se muskarci budu ujutru sa idejom da je danas jos jedan dan kada ce da se mrze zene, i kada ce dodatno da se radi na sistematskom unistavanju zena. U svakoj sekundi 99% muskaraca razmislja da li ce da podigne vise iz benca od drugog muskarca, i ko ce da bude 27 pik na draftu u nekom sportu...

Patrijarhat je stvarna stvar, negiranje njega je suludo, ali patrijarhat postoji kao jos prisutno koriscenje istorijske diskriminacije. Pravila igre nisu sada toliko mnogo losa, i nije problem njihova trenutna uredjenost. Problem je sto su pravila igre predugo bila losa i nefer prema zenama, i sada zene po zakonima pragmaticnih funkcionalnosti nisu ravnopravavne igraci.
Jednostavno slika Equality vs Equity to najbolje pokazuje. Nama treba Equity. Ali ovaj lik u ljubicastoj majici ne moze da puca u kolena liku u narandzastim pantalonama jer je visi, a neko je mnogo davno postavio visoku ogradu. Pa sad ne samo da zelis jos jednu kutiju, nego mu je potrebna da lik u narandzastima pantalonama bude u rupi... Dok se kopa ta rupa, rasiri se tu rupa oko rupe... i sam se propadne u deo te rupe

Edited 7 hours ago by BattleBender

[Mina D. Harker]

14 minutes ago, BattleBender said:

Ovo je kao da kazes da homo sapiens voli da se nabode iglom u venu, i da svoje drogiranje pretvori u destruktivan nacin zivota po sebe i druge. I to je ono sto sustinski opisuje homo sapiensa.

Niđe, ali niđe veze. 

 

Nema potrebe da pojašnjavaš moje, u datom kontekstu, savršeno jasne rečenice nesuvislim poređenjima. Malo mi već dosađuje da dodatno prevodim i pojašnjavam sagovornicima jasno formulisane misli, pa ću fino pretpostaviti da koristeći ovakva poređenja nisi dobronamjeran već da nitpick-uješ. 

Ako smeta glagol a poenta koja je 100% istinita promiče, problem je u tvojoj dobroj volji da razumiješ, ne mom izboru izraza. 

 

Vidim u narednom pasusu neki upozoravajući ton, neko proverbijalno mahanje prstom - woman's words man, kao srce da vam čupamo riječima. Običnim riječima. 

 

Ostatak čaršava nisam čitala, ali lepo je što voliš opširno da pišeš itd. 

[BattleBender]

6 minutes ago, Mina D. Harker said:

 

Vidim u narednom pasusu neki upozoravajući ton, neko proverbijalno mahanje prstom - woman's words man, kao srce da vam čupamo riječima. Običnim riječima. 

 

Sta ovo znaci?

[BattleBender]

Da kao sto rekoh, odsustvo elementarnog argumentovanja...

[DameTime]

1 hour ago, McLeod said:

Mizandrija i mizoginija su po definiciji iste pojave, to sto posledice jedne i druge nisu iste je sa tog psiholoskog stanovista potpuno nebitno.

 

Posledice ovih pojava su vrlo bitne. Nisu jednake pojave čak ni sa psihološkog aspekta, jer nemaju isto poreklo i motive. 

 

Mizandrija nije zastupljena koliko mizoginija, niti ima supporting system kao što ga mizoginija ima u okviru patrijarhata. Ona je reakcionarna, dok je mizoginija sistemska pojava i to je ogromna razlika. Da li to znači da treba aktivno podsticati mizandriju? Naravno da ne...

 

1 hour ago, McLeod said:

Borba protiv patrijarhata nije mizandrija niti mora da je ukljucuje, ali je to cesto slucaj, zbog cega se i ide stranputicom.

 

... pogotovo ne kao deo borbe protiv patrijarhata. 

[Mina D. Harker]

57 minutes ago, BattleBender said:

Da kao sto rekoh, odsustvo elementarnog argumentovanja...

Haha, pa napisah ti da mi je dosadilo da prevodim svoje riječi (voljno neupućenima), a ti mi u odgovoru upravo tražiš da prevedem šta sam napisala. Nije li to ironično?

Ne znam kakve argumente tražiš ili očekuješ, ja sam svoje već napisala i nisam zainteresovana za dalju komunikaciju.

[BattleBender]

16 minutes ago, DameTime said:

 

Posledice ovih pojava su vrlo bitne. Nisu jednake pojave čak ni sa psihološkog aspekta, jer nemaju isto poreklo i motive. 

 

Mizandrija nije zastupljena koliko mizoginija, niti ima supporting system kao što ga mizoginija ima u okviru patrijarhata. Ona je reakcionarna, dok je mizoginija sistemska pojava i to je ogromna razlika. Da li to znači da treba aktivno podsticati mizandriju? Naravno da ne...

 

Ja se slazem, jer su centri moci u muskim rukama predominatno. I jos problematicnije je to sto je globalno podrazumevajuci stav da budu u muskim rukama. Posledice su uocljivije, i konkretnije se manifestuju. Medjutim to nije sustinski najbitnija stvar.
I to ne znaci da treba da postoji nekakva relativizacija mizandrije, da je nekakva racionalna i smisljenja mrznja. To je stereotipna mrznja muskaraca protiv muskog pola kao celine, po nekakvom difoltu. I to je sustina stvari.

[DameTime]

2 minutes ago, BattleBender said:

Ja se slazem, jer su centri moci u muskim rukama predominatno. I jos problematicnije je to sto je globalno podrazumevajuci stav da budu u muskim rukama. Posledice su uocljivije, i konkretnije se manifestuju. Medjutim to nije sustinski najbitnija stvar.
I to ne znaci da treba da postoji nekakva relativizacija mizandrije, da je nekakva racionalna i smisljenja mrznja. To je stereotipna mrznja muskaraca protiv muskog pola kao celine, po nekakvom difoltu. I to je sustina stvari.

 

Kako nije suštinski najbitnija stvar u čijim je rukama društvena moć?  Što se tiče ostalog, mržnja nikad nije racionalna sama po sebi. To je emocija. 

[BattleBender]

10 minutes ago, Mina D. Harker said:

Haha, pa napisah ti da mi je dosadilo da prevodim svoje riječi (voljno neupućenima), a ti mi u odgovoru upravo tražiš da prevedem šta sam napisala. Nije li to ironično?

Ne znam kakve argumente tražiš ili očekuješ, ja sam svoje već napisala i nisam zainteresovana za dalju komunikaciju.

Kao prvo, ovo nije srednja skola da se furaju fazoni talk to my hand...

Ja cu da odgovorim i da se nastavim na konkretan neciji upis, ti ne moras da odgovors to je tvoja stvari, ali ja cu svakako da razlazem zasto mislim da je neki upis zbog konkretnih stvari smislen ili besmislen, i sta mi je tu jasno ili nejasno. Sta tebe interesuje ili ne, je ovde nebitna stvar. Bitna je iza tvog monitora/screen-a. A ovo je u screen-u.... Sedis pored racunara, napisala sa i na forumu odredjenu stvari, tvoj upis je stvar za koju mogu da se zainteresuju ucesnici foruma. To sto ti izbegavas da diskutujes o stvarima koji ti se ne svidjaju ili pak te npr mrzi da argumentujes nesto, to je tvoja stvar. Kojom upravo dokazujes ono sto sam napisao da se hvatate take-ova bez zelje da argumenujete nesto. Dosla osoba na forum da pise o odredjoenoj stvari, i onda ce da ignorise (barem pokusaj) argumentovanja oko te stvari sa nekakvim fazonom "mene ne interesuje sta je upis i sta si napisao". Kao rekla sam sta sam rekla, boli me uvo sta mislite... 

[Dragan]

1 hour ago, McLeod said:

Mizandrija i mizoginija su po definiciji iste pojave, to sto posledice jedne i druge nisu iste je sa tog psiholoskog stanovista potpuno nebitno.

 

Borba protiv patrijarhata nije mizandrija niti mora da je ukljucuje, ali je to cesto slucaj, zbog cega se i ide stranputicom.

Ovo je dobro primeceno i dobrim delom ono oko cega je pocela rasprava (i oko cega ce uvek iznova pocinjati).

"Prave feministice" (sto bi trebale biti sve zene) trebaju nauciti da vole muskarce, a mi muskarci treba da naucimo voleti zene.

To je put. Sve ostalo je produzavanje agonije.

 

Istina, ako uopste moze postojati u ovakvim veoma subjektivnim razgovorima, je veoma isfragmentirana jer se susrecu pogledi iz razlicitih uglova, razlicitih nivoa i pridavanja razlicitih vaznosti izvesnim kvantitetima i kvalitetima pojava.

 

Battle Bender, Eddard, fancy, McLeod ... postavljaju sasvim opravdane zamerke glede mogucih devijacija feminizma, ali to ocigledno iz nekog refleksa koji cini da zaigra levo oko, nacini paf i svako razumevanje prestaje, jer ko ce citati carsafe ...

Naravno da se radi o malim procentima ektremno radikalnog i agresivnog feminizma, ali kroz ovaj razgovor ipak nekako provejava izvesna sturost i i iskljucivost koja je mozda podsvesno prisutna i kod veceg broja feministica (nesto kao mirni muslimani, koji nemaju nista sa terorizmom, ali ipak drze palceve u dzepovima za "njihove").

Taj refleks "odbrane" zapravo samo steti mogucnosti razvoja borbe za ravnopravnost zena i nedobronamerni inceli ce to iskoristiti, nesto slicno kao sto desnica koristi ekstremne "woke" budalastine da bi diskreditovale sasvim opravdane zahteve diskriminiranih manjina.

U sustini to je jedan oblik iskljucivosti, pokusaj cancelovanja drugacijih misljenja, pa cak i neka vrsta verbalne policijske istrage.

 

Fora je u tome da ima dosta primera i samih feministkinja i zena koje su primecivale i kritikovale te pojave.

Nisam puno proucavao istoriju feminizma, ali je vec na prvo pretrazivanje jasno da se radi o veoma kompleksnim i heterogenim pristupima temama i misljenjima te je prilicno arogantno smatrati da je samo vlastito misljenje o tome ispravno.

Bilo da se radi o muskarcima, bilo o zenama.

 

"The vision of feminism is not a 'female future'. It is a human future. 

Without a role constraints, without power and violence, without male bundles and delusion of femininity." 

- Johanna Dohnal, 2004

[Mina D. Harker]

@BattleBender Liče, no means no 😑

 

24 minutes ago, Mina D. Harker said:

nisam zainteresovana za dalju komunikaciju.

 

Capiche?

[BattleBender]

11 minutes ago, DameTime said:

 

Kako nije suštinski najbitnija stvar u čijim je rukama društvena moć?  Što se tiče ostalog, mržnja nikad nije racionalna sama po sebi. To je emocija. 

Pa nije, ali ulazimo u domen dubljeg filozofoske diskusije. Sta je na kraju dana najbitnije....

Sa zeljom da se diskusija ne razvodni u tom nekom pravcu, dacu jedan primer koji moze da objasni kako gledam na te stvari.
Kao osoba koja je bila bas pro-vaccine tokom Korone, najgora stvar koja se desila tokom korona, iz antroploskog ugla je za mene bila prinuda i radjanje fasizma ponovo kroz prinudu da se ljudi vakcinisu.
Postoje stvari cija je eventualnost i priroda stvari imaju pandora kutija efekat, takav da svi ostali (trenutni) pojavni oblici deluju beznacajno.

[DameTime]

11 minutes ago, Dragan said:

Battle Bender, Eddard, fancy, McLeod ... postavljaju sasvim opravdane zamerke glede mogucih devijacija feminizma, ali to ocigledno iz nekog refleksa koji cini da zaigra levo oko, nacini paf i svako razumevanje prestaje, jer ko ce citati carsafe ...

 

Momci, da ne kažem muškarci, sve vas volim ❤️  

 

P.S. Ja recimo uopšte ne doživljavam kao da vi mene ne volite jer se ne slažemo 😁

[BattleBender]

Just now, DameTime said:

 

Momci, da ne kažem muškarci, sve vas volim ❤️  

 

P.S. Ja recimo uopšte ne doživljavam kao da vi mene ne volite jer se ne slažemo 😁

Pa dolazimo do toga da se razilazimo sa time sta je resenje za problem.
I drugacije gledanje na to sto je resenja problema se postavlja kao da drugacije i konstatujemo problem.

Problem postoji, suludo je negirati objektivnu realnost a to je da zivimo u Svetu gde su zene vise milenijuma bile u inferiornom polozaju. I to treba da se promeni, da se nadje resenje kako da se u nekom vremenskom okviru sredi taj inferioran polozaj i status
Mizandrija  nije resenje. As simple as that. Nebitno da li je nivo uticajnosti nekakva pricica uz reku, ili tektonski pokreti, Mizandrija ne da nije resenje, nego je udaljavanje od resenja.

[DameTime]

Brate mili, gde sam napisala da je mizandrija rešenje problema? Moj take se tiče toga da mizoginija i mizandrija nisu isti pojmovi.

[Malkolm Brogdon]

4 minutes ago, BattleBender said:

Pa dolazimo do toga da se razilazimo sa time sta je resenje za problem.
I drugacije gledanje na to sto je resenja problema se postavlja kao da drugacije i konstatujemo problem.

Problem postoji, suludo je negirati objektivnu realnost a to je da zivimo u Svetu gde su zene vise milenijuma bile u inferiornom polozaju. I to treba da se promeni, da se nadje resenje kako da se u nekom vremenskom okviru sredi taj inferioran polozaj i status
Mizandrija  nije resenje. As simple as that. Nebitno da li je nivo uticajnosti nekakva pricica uz reku, ili tektonski pokreti, Mizandrija ne da nije resenje, nego je udaljavanje od resenja.

Naravno da nije resenje, ali je reakcija. Ne nuzno racionalna, ali reakcija bas na ovo sto si napisao, inferioran polozaj milenijumima unazad.

 

Tu i jeste sustinska razlika izmedju mizoginije i mizandrije, jer mizoginija nije reakcija koja je proizasla iz stavljanja u inferioran polozaj.