Epidemija koronavirusa (Covid-19 / SARS-Cov2) - dnevne aktuelnosti iz zemlje i sveta

[Clash]

  On 4/26/2020 at 10:09 PM, Milenko Puzigaca said:

Nit je jedno niti drugo. Smorili su tim likom, a vidis, veca ljud'na bi bio da se tada kao neki njegovi kolege suprostavio zlu, ili da se bar sa gadjenjem povukao, nego sto je duvao u istu tikvu sa njima.

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Verovatno bi veca ljudina bio za tebe i Vasu.

Mislim da svi  oni vojnici, civili, zene i deca koje je lecio u ratu smatraju drugacije.
 

[didžej hel]

  On 4/26/2020 at 9:15 PM, Dl91 said:

@uini

 

Ma niko ne moze da spori da je on manipulator i gleda da u svakoj situaciji besramno ubira plodove. Hteo sam da istaknem da ima ljudi kojima je mnogo teze nego nama koji sedimo kod kuce.

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to van diskusije. mislim da niko tim potezom nije omalovazavao napor tih ljudi, niti je revolt bio usmeren na to što su ljudi u kućama 

 

odnosno, valjda je jasno da nije ni jedno ni drugo tema? 

[LayupFromTheMidget]

  On 4/26/2020 at 8:46 PM, DJ_Vasa said:

 

kod njega nije mogao da položi niko ko to nije zaslužio. Lečili su ga šestičari kojima je i tu ocenu poklonio i bio je velikodušniji od ostalih kolega.

 

 

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I sta je na kraju istina, zasluzene 6 ili sesticari kojima je i tu ocenu poklonio?Ozbiljna kontradiktornost.
Da li je bio strog profesor koji ocenjuje objektivno ili velikodusni profesor koji ni manje ni vise na Medicinskom fakultetu daje 6?
Posto te poklonjene 6 su veliki problem ovog drustva, glavna vrednost kod profesora ne treba da bude velikodusnost, vec objektivnost. Pogotovo na tom fakultetu, za lazne slikara, filozofe me zabole, ali ovi lazni medicinari su malo opasniji problem po drustvo.

[DJ_Vasa]

  On 4/26/2020 at 10:44 PM, CLakiSH said:

Verovatno bi veca ljudina bio za tebe i Vasu.

Mislim da svi  oni vojnici, civili, zene i deca koje je lecio u ratu smatraju drugacije.
 

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Nismo u ovoj priči bitni ni Milenko ni ja, niti smo tema. Naravno, nemam ništa protiv da bilo ko piše šta god hoće o meni, a svako ima pravo da smatra da sam dobar, loš, pametan, glup i tako to. Učešće u agresorskoj vojsci nije baš za pohvalu, a bilo je dosta civilnih lekara koji su lečili običan svet i nisu priapdali Mladićevim ili Karadžićevim hordama.

 

  On 4/26/2020 at 10:45 PM, LayupFromTheMidget said:

I sta je na kraju istina, zasluzene 6 ili sesticari kojima je i tu ocenu poklonio?Ozbiljna kontradiktornost.
Da li je bio strog profesor koji ocenjuje objektivno ili velikodusni profesor koji ni manje ni vise na Medicinskom fakultetu daje 6?
Posto te poklonjene 6 su veliki problem ovog drustva, glavna vrednost kod profesora ne treba da bude velikodusnost, vec objektivnost. Pogotovo na tom fakultetu, za lazne slikara, filozofe me zabole, ali ovi lazni medicinari su malo opasniji problem po drustvo.

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Možda sam se pogrešno ili nejasno izrazio, ali evo da se ispravim: nije poklanjao ocene, već je bio korektan profesor koji nije maltretirao studente i samo je tražio da znaju. To što sam napisao da je ovima poklonio ocene je samo moje mišljenje na osnovu onoga kako su radili svoj posao. Na ispitu su sigurno pokazali dovoljno znanje, ali je očigledno da im je znanje koje ne koriste bilo uzaludno. Svi mi koji smo legalno dobili dozvolu znamo saobraćajne propise, ali imaš i onih koji voze 200 km/h u gradu, onih koji pretiču na punoj liniji i slično. Onaj koji pretiče po punoj liniji i zakuca se u drugi auto je zaista mogao i da nauči propise, ali očito da ih nije primenio u praksi.

Edited April 26, 2020 by DJ_Vasa

[Vjekoslav]

  On 4/26/2020 at 11:07 PM, DJ_Vasa said:

Nismo u ovoj priči bitni ni Milenko ni ja, niti smo tema. Naravno, nemam ništa protiv da bilo ko piše šta god hoće o meni, a svako ima pravo da smatra da sam dobar, loš, pametan, glup i tako to. Učešće u agresorskoj vojsci nije baš za pohvalu, a bilo je dosta civilnih lekara koji su lečili običan svet i nisu priapdali Mladićevim ili Karadžićevim hordama.

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pise mu u biografiji da je bio Referent saniteta za preventivnu medicinsku zaštitu na području Krajine i zapadnog Srema 1991-1992, sto u prijevodu znaci da je bio u ekipi koja je sanirala opasnosti od zaraza kad su usli u prazan Vukovar, ili Laslovo, itd. al ne vidim ja tu nista necasno. uostalom, i nas forumas Vladan je bio lekar u vojnoj sluzbi, i to bas kod Ratka Mladica 1991. u Kninu (sam je o tome pisao u nekoliko navrata), pa mu to nikada nije nitko na FB92 zamerio. ja sigurno nisam.

[Atreid]

  On 4/26/2020 at 10:12 PM, Baros said:

Negotin nije u Vojvodini...

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Za sad

Edited April 27, 2020 by Atreid

[Darko]

  On 4/26/2020 at 4:26 PM, Sunshine State said:

 

Uz duzno postovanje umrlim, 10 umrlih za ca. mesec dana ne zvuci kao pomor. 

U mom gradu od 45000 stanovnika, u redovnim vremenima ima 4-5 sahrana dnevno. 

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To se desi kada nema mesta u bolnicama. Kada ima mesta, mortality rate je negde između 1 i 2%. Ako nema - skače naveliko. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Darko

[NMX]

 

Deluje da je svet na platou što bi Kon rekao. Da je to to što se rasta obolelih tiče. Valjalo bi uskoro da krene pad (postoji blagi pad poslednjih par dana ali pripisujem to vikendu). 

 

I da vidimo kako će biti sa južnom hemisferom, tj. da li će nastradati kao i severna.

 

Inače, radujem se ovom testiranju tokom leta, na antitela. Zanima me koji je % ljudi kod nas sa antitelima. Znajući koliko se mulja sa ciframa a takođe znajući da je cela zemlja bila bolesna tokom januara i februara (moji ukućani pola decembra bolesni, glavobolje, 38-39 stepeni danima, kašalj, žena čak završila sa inhalacijama i injekcijama)...baš me zanima koji će % biti. Ne očekujem neko ludilo od rezultata ali verujem da je dosta ljudi preležalo a da pojma nisu imali. 

[Atreid]

  On 4/27/2020 at 6:28 AM, NMX said:

Inače, radujem se ovom testiranju tokom leta, na antitela. Zanima me koji je % ljudi kod nas sa antitelima. Znajući koliko se mulja sa ciframa a takođe znajući da je cela zemlja bila bolesna tokom januara i februara (moji ukućani pola decembra bolesni, glavobolje, 38-39 stepeni danima, kašalj, žena čak završila sa inhalacijama i injekcijama)...baš me zanima koji će % biti. Ne očekujem neko ludilo od rezultata ali verujem da je dosta ljudi preležalo a da pojma nisu imali. 

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Da, to ce biti najzanimljiviju podatak da doznamo. Preliminarna istrazivanja u Kini pokazuju 14%, ona provincija gdje je Wuhan, a Diamond Princess je imala 19% cini mi se. Tako da se tu negdje mogu ocekivati cifre.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Atreid

[Plavi Golub]

  On 4/27/2020 at 6:28 AM, NMX said:

Inače, radujem se ovom testiranju tokom leta, na antitela.

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Da li se zna kad ce to tacno da rade? Je li to ambulantski test?

[Arsenije Pesic]

Jedno je sigurno, sprovešćemo najbolje testiranje na antitela u Evropi, a i šire. Po kineskom modelu, naravno.

 

Što se tiče lockdowna, jedini vikend za koji sam se ja plašio da može da nam napravi problem je upravo predstojeći, prvomajski. Tako da jesam za zatvaranje, preživećemo na sve ovo još tri dana. Naročito je to bitno ovde u Boru i istočnoj Srbiji, jer ovde sada najjače bukti. Trebalo bi razmišljati i o nekoj vrsti zabrane kretanja iz i u kritične regione, ako je stvarno situacija takva da se Beograd i Vojvodina smiruju. 

 

E da, šerpašenje sinoć - vrlo prijatno iznenađenje, vrlo masovno i vrlo bučno.

[NMX]

  On 4/27/2020 at 6:43 AM, Plavi Golub said:

 

Da li se zna kad ce to tacno da rade? Je li to ambulantski test?

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Nisam siguran ni da oni to znaju. Mislim da jeste ambulantni test, da se radi iz krvi i to mi uliva nadu da mogu sam da odem u neku privatnu laboratoriju (platim) i testiram se. 

[мајор јосип]

  On 4/26/2020 at 10:12 PM, Baros said:

 

Negotin nije u Vojvodini...

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Pobrkao sam sa Zrenjaninom..

I nisam Pazovu stavio sa 32 medju one od 30+ pogledah sada još jednom listu. Ni Pančevo sa 93 🧐🤫Hvala

🙂

 

Iz nekog razloga ne mogu da obrišem ova dva retardirana smajlija, slučajno ih stavio ovde. Pokušavam već dosta vremena. Dobro je da nisam kliknuo na neke s poljupcima ili tako nešto.  Ovi se čak i uklapaju u kontekst. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by marejosip

[Yoyogi]

Reko mi jedan da ne prolazim više ovuda. Kako naiđem, oni produže vreme zatvorenosti muzeja. Sada je 11. maj.2020. Ovo je bilo još 4. aprila.

 

 

 

[Klotzen]

  On 4/26/2020 at 9:15 PM, Dl91 said:

@uini

 

Ma niko ne moze da spori da je on manipulator i gleda da u svakoj situaciji besramno ubira plodove. Hteo sam da istaknem da ima ljudi kojima je mnogo teze nego nama koji sedimo kod kuce.

 

Jos se izgleda i ljudi tako lako etiketiraju ako naprave greh i spomenu Vucic i Djilasa u istoj recenici. 

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Ajde prvo pročitaj vesti u vezi tog mini protesta pa ga onda pljuj. Zato se ljudi sprdaju sa tvojim postom ?

 

1. Doktori su dobili svoj pljesak u 20h

2. "Mini protest" je počeo u 20:05

3. Organizator protesta je "Ne Davimo Beograd" a ne Đilas

4. Protest je orgaznizovan zbog :

""U nedelju 26. aprila u Srbiji je trebalo da budu održani izbori čiji rezultat se unapred znao. Pretnjama, pritiscima i nasiljem prema neistomišljenicima, skoro potpunom kontrolom i zloupotrebom medija, partijskim preuzimanjem pravosuđa, kao i ucenama i ekonomskim ugnjetavanjem velikog broja građana, režim je Srbiju doveo korak do doktature", navela je Inicijativa u saopštenju uz ocenu da su "vanredno stanje i globalna kriza COVID 19, učinili stvari očiglednim"."

 

Kad sad ovo uporediš sa tvojom rečenicom valjda ti je jasno da zvučiš kao 100% bot koji je lupio kao grom iz vedra neba, ili kao neko ko je potpuno dezinformisan na režimskim medijima i priča priču kojom Faraon ispira mozgove već godinama na svojim medijima.

 

Nije sramota pogrešiti ali ako umesto da kažeš da si pogrešio ti kreneš da braniš svoju tvrdnju onda mi i nemamo drugog izbora osim da pomislimo da si bot.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Klotzen

[Dl91]

To je vasa stvar, svako ko kaze nesto drugacije, sto odskace od vaseg misljenje taj je bot. 

 

Vec sam rekao, potencirao sam doktore. Iz te perspektive sam posao.

Ljudi se bore kao divovi. Krivo mi je sto se kod nas sve politizuje, sve se sad gleda kroz prizmu politike. Jedino njima u celoj ovoj situaciji verujem, ne interesuje me psiho koji iskace iz frizidera. 

 

Ako vama smeta sto ima ljudi koji se ne poistovecuju niti sa Vucicem, niti sa "Ne davimo Beograd", to je vas problem. 

[nemanjaol]

Zanimljiv intervju profesora Drostena

 

Izdvajam ovaj deo

 

  Quote

At the moment, we are seeing half-empty ICUs in Germany. This is because we started diagnostics early and on a broad scale, and we stopped the epidemic – that is, we brought the reproduction number [a key measure of the spread of the virus] below 1. Now, what I call the “prevention paradox” has set in. People are claiming we over-reacted, there is political and economic pressure to return to normal. The federal plan is to lift lockdown slightly, but because the German states, or Länder, set their own rules, I fear we’re going to see a lot of creativity in the interpretation of that plan. I worry that the reproduction number will start to climb again, and we will have a second wave.

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Zato je važno da popuštanje bude sprovođeno postepeno i planski, kao i da građanima bude maksimalno jasno šta su očekivanja što se tiče ponašanja kada se većina mera ukine.

 

Ceo intervju

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Germany's Covid-19 expert: 'For many, I'm the evil guy crippling the economy'

Laura Spinney

Germany’s leading coronavirus expert Christian Drosten on Merkel’s leadership, the UK response and the ‘prevention paradox’

Sun 26 Apr 2020 12.00 BST
Last modified on Sun 26 Apr 2020 18.40 BST

Christian Drosten, who directs the Institute of Virology at the Charité Hospital in Berlin, was one of those who identified the Sars virus in 2003. As the head of the German public health institute’s reference lab on coronaviruses, he has become the government’s go-to expert on the related virus causing the current pandemic.

In an exclusive interview, Drosten admits he fears a second deadly wave of the virus. He explains why Angela Merkel has an advantage over other world leaders – and why the “prevention paradox” keeps him awake at night.

Q: Germany will start to lift its lockdown gradually from Monday. What happens next?
A: At the moment, we are seeing half-empty ICUs in Germany. This is because we started diagnostics early and on a broad scale, and we stopped the epidemic – that is, we brought the reproduction number [a key measure of the spread of the virus] below 1. Now, what I call the “prevention paradox” has set in. People are claiming we over-reacted, there is political and economic pressure to return to normal. The federal plan is to lift lockdown slightly, but because the German states, or Länder, set their own rules, I fear we’re going to see a lot of creativity in the interpretation of that plan. I worry that the reproduction number will start to climb again, and we will have a second wave.

Q: If the lockdown were kept in place longer, could the disease be eradicated?
A: There is a group of modellers in Germany who suggest that by prolonging lockdown here for another few weeks, we could really suppress virus circulation to a considerable degree – bringing the reproduction number below 0.2. I tend to support them but I haven’t completely made up my mind. The reproduction number is just an average, an indication. It doesn’t tell you about pockets of high prevalence such as senior citizens’ homes, where it will take longer to eradicate the disease, and from where we could see a rapid resurgence even if lockdown were extended.

Q: If there were such a resurgence, could it be contained?
A: Yes, but it can’t happen based on human contact-tracing alone. We now have evidence that almost half of infection events happen before the person passing on the infection develops symptoms – and people are infectious starting two days prior to that. That means that human contact-tracers working with patients to identify those they’ve been exposed to are in a race against time. They need help to catch all those potentially exposed as quickly as possible – and that will require electronic contact-tracing.

Q: How close we are to achieving herd immunity?
A: To achieve herd immunity we need 60-70% of the population to carry antibodies to the virus. The results of antibody tests suggest that in Europe and the US, in general, we are in the low single digits, but the tests are not reliable – all of them have problems with false positives – and herd immunity is also not the whole story. It assumes complete mixing of the population, but there are reasons – in part to do with the social networks people form – why the whole population may not be available for infection at any given time. Networks shift, and new people are exposed to the virus. Such effects can drive waves of infection. Another factor that could impact herd immunity is whether other coronaviruses – those that cause the common cold, for example – offer protection to this one. We don’t know, but it’s possible.

Q: Should all countries be testing everybody?
A: I’m not sure. Even in Germany, with our huge testing capacity, and most of it directed to people reporting symptoms, we have not had a positivity rate above 8%. So I think targeted testing might be best, for people who are really vulnerable – staff in hospitals and care homes, for example. This is not fully in place even in Germany, though we’re moving towards it. The other target should be patients in the first week of symptoms, especially elderly patients who tend to come to hospital too late at the moment – when their lips are already blue and they need intubation. And we need some kind of sentinel surveillance system, to sample the population regularly and follow the development of the reproduction number.

Q: What is known about the seasonality of the virus?
A: Not a lot. The Harvard modelling group led by Marc Lipsitch has suggested that transmission might slow over the summer, but that it will be a small effect. I don’t have better data.

Q: Can we say for sure that the pandemic started in China?
I think so. On the other hand, I don’t assume that it started at the food market in Wuhan. It is more likely to have started where the animal – the intermediate host – was bred.

Q: What do we know about that intermediate host – is it the “poor pangolin”, as it’s come to be known?
A: I don’t see any reason to assume that the virus passed through pangolins on its way to humans. There is an interesting piece of information from the old Sars literature. That virus was found in civet cats, but also in raccoon dogs – something the media overlooked. Raccoon dogs are a massive industry in China, where they are bred on farms and caught in the wild for their fur. If somebody gave me a few hundred thousand bucks and free access to China to find the source of the virus, I would look in places where raccoon dogs are bred.

Q: Will it be useful to identify patient zero – the first human to have been infected with this virus?
A: No. Patient zero is almost certain to have acquired a virus that is very similar to some of the first sequenced viruses, so it wouldn’t help us solve our current problem. I don’t think you could even argue that it would help us prevent future coronavirus pandemics, because humanity will be immune to the next Sars-related coronavirus, having been exposed to this one. Other coronaviruses could pose a threat – a prime candidate is the Middle East respiratory syndrome (Mers) virus – but to understand that threat we have to study how Mers viruses are evolving in camels in the Middle East.

Q: Are human activities responsible for the spillover of coronaviruses from animals into people?
Coronaviruses are prone to switch hosts when there is opportunity, and we create such opportunities through our non-natural use of animals – livestock. Livestock animals are exposed to wildlife, they are kept in large groups that can amplify the virus, and humans have intense contact with them – for example through the consumption of meat – so they certainly represent a possible trajectory of emergence for coronaviruses. Camels count as livestock in the Middle East, and they are the host of the Mers virus as well as human coronavirus 229E – which is one cause of the common cold – while cattle were the original hosts for coronavirus OC43, which is another.

Q: Flu has always been thought to pose the greatest pandemic risk. Is that still the case?
A: Certainly, but we can’t rule out another coronavirus pandemic. After the first Ebola outbreak, in 1976, people thought it would never come back again, but it took less than 20 years to do so.

Q: Is all the science being done around this coronavirus good science?
A: No! Early on, in February, there were many interesting preprints [scientific papers that have not yet been peer-reviewed] around. Now you can read through 50 before you find something that’s actually solid and interesting. A lot of research resources are being wasted.

Q: Angela Merkel has been praised for her leadership during this crisis. What makes her a good leader?
She’s extremely well-informed. It helps that she’s a scientist and can handle numbers. But I think it mainly comes down to her character – her thoughtfulness and ability to reassure. Maybe one of the distinguishing features of a good leader is that they are not using this present situation as a political opportunity. They know how counterproductive that would be.

Q: From where you stand, how is the UK handling the situation?
A: It’s clear that testing was implemented a little bit too late in the UK. Public Health England was in a position to diagnose the disease very early on – we worked with them to make the diagnostic test – but rollout in Germany was driven in part by market forces, which made it fast, and that wasn’t the case in the UK. Now, though, I have the impression that the UK is really gaining momentum in this regard, and that it is coordinating testing efforts better than Germany.

Q: What keeps you awake at night?
A: In Germany, people see that the hospitals are not overwhelmed, and they don’t understand why their shops have to shut. They only look at what’s happening here, not at the situation in, say, New York or Spain. This is the prevention paradox, and for many Germans I’m the evil guy who is crippling the economy. I get death threats, which I pass on to the police. More worrying to me are the other emails, the ones from people who say they have three kids and they’re worried about the future. It’s not my fault, but those ones keep me awake at night.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/virologist-christian-drosten-germany-coronavirus-expert-interview

[DJ_Vasa]

  On 4/27/2020 at 3:11 AM, Vjekoslav said:

 

pise mu u biografiji da je bio Referent saniteta za preventivnu medicinsku zaštitu na području Krajine i zapadnog Srema 1991-1992, sto u prijevodu znaci da je bio u ekipi koja je sanirala opasnosti od zaraza kad su usli u prazan Vukovar, ili Laslovo, itd. al ne vidim ja tu nista necasno. uostalom, i nas forumas Vladan je bio lekar u vojnoj sluzbi, i to bas kod Ratka Mladica 1991. u Kninu (sam je o tome pisao u nekoliko navrata), pa mu to nikada nije nitko na FB92 zamerio. ja sigurno nisam.

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OK, I stand corrected, što rekoše anglosaksonska braća, mada nisam ljubitelj pripadnika dotičnih vojski.

[Sunshine State]

Novo žarište u Srbiji? Traže od Kriznog štaba da ne budu ublažene mere

Vlasotince - novo zariste.... jos jedno od onih gde su "Vojvodjani koji rostiljaju na Fruskoj Gori i Beogradjani koji setaju po Kosutnjaku" zabrljali stvar, jelte!

 

Dosta maltretiranja ljudi koji postuju mere, izoluj ove koji ne postuju. Ako je zariste u Vlasotincu - ne popustaj mere tamo, izoluj opstinu i gotovo!

 

[Tomiprunet]

  On 4/27/2020 at 7:39 AM, Dl91 said:

To je vasa stvar, svako ko kaze nesto drugacije, sto odskace od vaseg misljenje taj je bot. 
 
Vec sam rekao, potencirao sam doktore. Iz te perspektive sam posao.
Ljudi se bore kao divovi. Krivo mi je sto se kod nas sve politizuje, sve se sad gleda kroz prizmu politike. Jedino njima u celoj ovoj situaciji verujem, ne interesuje me psiho koji iskace iz frizidera. 
 
Ako vama smeta sto ima ljudi koji se ne poistovecuju niti sa Vucicem, niti sa "Ne davimo Beograd", to je vas problem. 

Samo da se nadovezem na doktore i verovanje u njih.
Ja bas i nemam neko poverenje u nase doktore. Licna iskustva.

Sent from my MI 9T Pro using Tapatalk

[DJ_Vasa]

  On 4/27/2020 at 7:39 AM, Dl91 said:

To je vasa stvar, svako ko kaze nesto drugacije, sto odskace od vaseg misljenje taj je bot. 

 

Vec sam rekao, potencirao sam doktore. Iz te perspektive sam posao.

Ljudi se bore kao divovi. Krivo mi je sto se kod nas sve politizuje, sve se sad gleda kroz prizmu politike. Jedino njima u celoj ovoj situaciji verujem, ne interesuje me psiho koji iskace iz frizidera. 

 

Ako vama smeta sto ima ljudi koji se ne poistovecuju niti sa Vucicem, niti sa "Ne davimo Beograd", to je vas problem. 

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Ama nisu problem lekari kao lekari, što važi i za svaku profesiju. Ljudi očigledno neće da masovno učestvuju u jeftinoj manifestaciji veštačke solidarnosti, ali im je pun kufer režima. Ako ti je stalo do lekara, izvoli pa se priključi protestu protiv režima jer je isti taj režim zakinuo plate npr. lekarima na infektivnoj, a verujem da će ti i oni sami reći da im je korisnije nekoliko hiljada više u džepu nego to što im neko aplaudira. Pare su ionako pošteno zaradili, oko čega se sigurno slažemo, a pošto nisu muzikanti ili klovnovi, neka dobiju lepo to što su zaradili i neka im se stvore uslovi za rad. Uostalom, ko je kriv što nemaju ni pare ni uslove?

Edited April 27, 2020 by DJ_Vasa

[djole]

  On 4/26/2020 at 6:28 PM, Dl91 said:

Govna smo. 

 

I u ovakvoj situaciji je bitna politika. 

 

Kod mene aplauz za doktore mlitav, a onda je doslo do urlikanja, serpanja i muzike... Jebali nas Vucic, Djilas i ostali. 

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Naravno da je Zvezdarac lajkovao 

[deez nuts.]

Blizi se Vidovdan, pa se pojacavaju sendvicarske aktivnosti.

[Dl91]

Najbolja reakcija, etiketirati ljude.

Ne treba inteligencije za to. 

 

Razumem vas ja, samo ne mogu da shvatim da ne vidite da bilo koja inicijativa koja se pojavila od visestranacja ma koliko cista i iskrena bila je na samom kraju  iskoristena na najgori moguci nacin. Toliko. 

 

Nemam nameru vise da se nadgornjavam, nije mi to cilj bio. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Dl91

[Laki21]

Brate, kako je to iskorišćeno na najgori mogući način ako su ljudi iskazali nezadovoljstvo protestvujući protiv vlasti?