Bliski Istok

[Helena]

5 minutes ago, Mama_mia said:

Pretim dakle postojim, podneo uvazeni 

DR MUZAFFAR SYAH MALLOW

Associate Professor, Faculty of Syariah and Law, Universiti Sains Islam Malaysia 

...........all Muslim countries should insist on the United Nations (UN) condemning all the barbaric actions by Israel towards the Palestinians. They should insist on the UN sending immediate humanitarian and military assistance to protect the Palestinians.

If the UN fails to fulfil any of these demands, all Muslim countries should withdraw their membership in the UN. Without Muslim countries, the UN will become crippled and weak because the number of Muslim countries is huge, and many of these Muslim countries have vast natural resource reserves.

 

...jadne ujedinjene nacije, kako da se izbore sa onim iznad i ovim ispod a da odrze balans

 

U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres told the Security Council Friday that two months into Israel’s war with Hamas “we are at a breaking point,” and urged them to push for an immediate humanitarian cease-fire, but the United States used its veto to prevent the council from demanding one.

 

 

Zar ja branim da se trazi rezon. Ma kakvi branim. To je dobro, traziti rezon kome nije ocigledno, je prava investicija u Prostor/Vreme. Na tabli mozemo da nacrtamo dijagrame za vizuelizaciju relativistickih efekata. Ja sam za to. Istraziti istraziti i istraziti!!!   Jer ipak nije hamas tamo neki samo jedan psiho vec mnogo njih. 

 

 

 

 

Sarkazam je neumesan i nepotreban.

Naravno da treba tražiti uzroke, osim ako ne želiš da strepiš od nekog novog napada.

Niko ne želi tako da živi i niko ne zaslužuje tako da živi, pa ni nesretnici u Palestini koji iz ovog ili onog razloga bivaju bombardovani.

Izrael je preterao u retorici citirajući verske tekstove umesto da se poziva na bezbednost.

Preterala si i ti sa još par ljudi ovde želeći samo i samo delovanje izraelske vojske.

Bukvalno, udahnite.

[Mama_mia]

 

Vest koja ce sigurno sve iznenaditi:

 

Iran slams US for vetoing UNSC ceasefire resolution

 

@Helena

ako mozes, obuzdaj se u komentarisanju mojih postova. Informisi se, pisi u vezi teme, diskutuj normalno bez pogresno ubacenih primedbi i analize onoga sto ja pisem. Ok? 

Sta znaci pisati o necemu sto ne znas vec samo naslucujes? Ocito je iz tvog postovanja. Niti znas sta je neumesno niti sta je nepotrebno, niti sta je sarkazam niti ironija. Posebno nije normalno da delis savete tipa - Udahnite.

 

na sta to lici? umesto da se smori onaj koji ovde nesto to mislim zaista NESTO pise, ti se smorila sto to citas pa molis boga da prestane i jos kazes Udahnite. Cudno ponasanje na forumu.

 

[Helena]

Ti si kvotovala mene takođe.

Šta ja to ne znam, ne znam da ljudi ginu?

Da Izrael koristi SAD već prekomernu silu?

Ko spomene Palestince automatski je za Hamas?

 

Šta ja od toga ne znam?

Zato ja pak tebe molim da ne držim lekcije ljudima koji ništa ne znaju, jer takvih je najviše.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Helena

[erwin]

Huti u Jemenu najavili blokadu svih brodova koji idu za Izrael bez obzira na zastavu pod kojom plove, a Netanjahu prema izjavi njegovog savetnika za nacionalnu bezbednost Cahija Hanegbija izraelskom Kanalu 12 upozorio Bajdena i Šolca da će Izrael, ako oni ne reaguju, preduzeti vojne mere protiv njih.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by erwin

[A sad]

19 minutes ago, erwin said:

Hutiji u Jemenu najavili blokadu svih brodova koji idu za Izrael bez obzira na zastavu pod kojom plove, a Netanjahu prema izjavi njegovog savetnika za nacionalnu bezbednost Cahija Hanegbija izraelskom Kanalu 12 upozorio Bajdena i Šolca da će Izrael, ako oni ne reaguju, preduzeti vojne mere protiv njih.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bilo bi extra da Huti to urade. Da se zavrsi vise i sa tim ludacima.  

 

[erwin]

Skaj njuz uhvatio izraelsku ambasadorku u Britaniji u masnoj laži - ustvrdila da na onom parčencetu priobalne zemlje, Mavasiju, na koje je Izrael predvideo da se smesti svih 2 miliona Palestinaca proglasivši ga jedinom bezbednom zonom postoji humanitarna infrastruktura (pomoć, kuhinje i šatori), kojoj je po njenoj tvrdnji i Izrael doprineo.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by erwin

[Mama_mia]

.... vidi ti to bruka i sramota ....zao mi je tiktokera sta sve imaju da procitaju...pa jos i masne izraelicanske lazi. Sramota neka ih prekrije sto se kite tudjim perjem. Ni kuhinje ni hrane nema, sve hamas odneo k tunelima....

 

ps. daj boze, tj.nedajboze da me vide ProUdahnite da jos ne spavam....Pa ne spavam, subotom citam laganu lit.

[Beonegro]

Ovi islamokomunisti iz The Economista samo nešto pitaju.

A i ja vala samo odvlačim pažnju od teme linkovima.

Quote

 

Was Israel’s attack on al-Shifa hospital justified?

Israel has so far offered little evidence that it was. More may yet turn up

 

The laws of war give special protection to hospitals. They lose that protection if they are used for “harmful” acts. Israel has long claimed that al-Shifa hospital, the largest in the Gaza Strip, serves as a key command centre for Hamas, the group which killed or took hostage around 1,400 people in Israel on October 7th. In the early hours of November 15th, after a tense six-day stand-off, members of Shaldag, an elite Israeli air-force commando unit, entered one wing of the hospital.

So far there is little evidence of its being a major military facility. Only the coming days will determine whether Israel has in fact rooted out a Hamas headquarters. Whether good evidence turns up matters to both sides. For Israel, the hospital is a prime example of how Hamas hides behind innocent civilians inside targets that are calculated to provoke outrage if they are attacked. For the Palestinians, targeting a hospital is emblematic of how cheaply Israel values Palestinian suffering. If Israel fails to justify its charges against al-Shifa, its operation in Gaza will be undermined.

Start with the public claims. On October 27th the Israel Defence Forces (idf) said that al-Shifa, which is in the centre of Gaza city, was the “focus” of Hamas’s activity in the Gaza Strip. It said the site had “several underground complexes” used by leaders, including a “control centre” for Hamas’s internal-security unit and a “headquarters” to direct rocket fire, command forces and store weapons. A slick “intelligence-based” video published by the idf the same day showed a 3D model of the hospital with a Bond-villain lair beneath, including labyrinthine corridors, large meeting rooms and rows of laptops.

Israeli officials have said that Hamas had begun creating the facility by 2007, enlarging basements originally dug by Israel when it expanded the hospital in the 1980s. They have also said it had several floors and space for several hundred people. Amnesty International, a human-rights organisation, has said that Hamas had used parts of al-Shifa “to detain, interrogate, torture and otherwise ill-treat suspects” in 2014. Hamas’s leadership is thought to have holed up below the hospital during wars in 2009 and 2014. Israeli officials say it has been used to treat the 240 hostages captured on October 7th, some of whom were wounded or had pre-existing conditions.

America has endorsed many of these claims. On November 14th John Kirby, a spokesman for the White House, said that Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a smaller group, operated a “command-and-control node” from al-Shifa. On November 16th, after the idf had entered the site, Mr Kirby said America was “still convinced of the soundness of [its] intelligence”.

Hamas denies the allegations, and medical personnel at al-Shifa say they have seen no evidence of them. The proof Israel has produced so far has been underwhelming. The idf says it has found “intelligence materials, military technologies and equipment, command-and-control centres, and communications equipment” at al-Shifa. It has published photographs showing guns, ammunition and Iranian-made anti-tank rockets it says were found in the mri department, as well as the entrance to an unexplored tunnel shaft. Separately, the idf has found the bodies of two hostages near the hospital. It has also taken some unidentified bodies back to Israel.

It is too early to reach a definitive judgment on whether Israel’s most dramatic claims will eventually be backed by evidence. One reason is that it has so far combed through only a small part of the hospital compound. The idf is negotiating with medical staff on evacuating the site, which is likely to take several days. Troops are also moving slowly for fear of booby traps. They are under strict orders not to enter tunnels and have used robots and sniffer-dogs to explore them. Israeli officials insist that “there is much more terror infrastructure in the area of the complex that is well hidden.” What’s more, they say, Hamas has had weeks to cover its tracks since it became clear that Israel’s ground offensive would be far larger than in the past.

Even if Israel does find evidence, it may not meet the expectations of the watching world. In legal terms, the discovery of a weapons cache could be enough to cause a hospital to lose its protection. However, the Geneva conventions specify that the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from wounded combatants is not enough to qualify. And whatever the letter of the law, finding a clutch of Kalashnikovs and grenades would not be seen by many to justify taking over Gaza’s largest hospital. As a further complication, a command-and-control “node” or “headquarters” is unlikely to resemble the operations room of a conventional army or the idf video. One tell-tale sign might be communications infrastructure: Hamas is thought to have planned the October 7th attack using hardwired telephone lines, rather than mobile-phone and internet networks monitored by Israel.

Israel itself is largely responsible for the high expectations. Many Israeli defence personnel are privately critical of the idf Spokesperson’s Unit for building up an unrealistic picture of what might be found underneath al-Shifa and exaggerating its centrality to Hamas. Even Israeli intelligence officials do not believe that the group currently has its main headquarters—to the extent that such a thing exists—below the hospital. These, they say, have probably moved to Khan Younis, a city in southern Gaza that lies beyond Israel’s current zone of operations. On November 15th the idf dropped leaflets on the city warning residents of certain neighbourhoods to leave.

In practice, Hamas’s command-and-control structure is fluid. The group’s military wing, the Qassam Brigades, does not have a single official headquarters or permanent bases. That has presented the idf with two challenges. One is the intelligence problem of finding commanders. In recent years, the idf’s military-intelligence branch has attempted to refresh its pre-war “target bank” by using artificial intelligence to analyse data collected from satellites and aerial surveillance. That process is opaque.

The other challenge is legal. Under the laws of war, an otherwise-civilian object can become a military one by its “purpose”—if Hamas intends to return to a site in the future, it may be targeted. But the rules for hospitals are tighter. The International Committee of the Red Cross, a humanitarian organisation, says that an army must “interrupt” its attack “if the facility no longer meets the criteria leading to the loss of protected status”—for instance, if combatants have fled. The idf, which appears to take an expansive view of the rules for hospitals as it does with all targeting, says that after several wars in which Hamas leaders have hunkered down under al-Shifa, Israel intends to clear out the hospital once and for all. 

 

 

[Angelia]

3 hours ago, Helena said:

Sarkazam je neumesan i nepotreban.

Naravno da treba tražiti uzroke, osim ako ne želiš da strepiš od nekog novog napada.

Niko ne želi tako da živi i niko ne zaslužuje tako da živi, pa ni nesretnici u Palestini koji iz ovog ili onog razloga bivaju bombardovani.

Izrael je preterao u retorici citirajući verske tekstove umesto da se poziva na bezbednost.

Preterala si i ti sa još par ljudi ovde želeći samo i samo delovanje izraelske vojske.

Bukvalno, udahnite.

Rezon je napisan u Hamasovom charteru, i objasnjen u svakom intervjuu Hamasovih vodja. taj rezon je treba pobiti ili proterati (u more, pozeljna opcija je prva) sve Jevreje. Generalno mach ili sherijat.

Nema tu neke misterije za traziti uzroke. Sami hamasovci ce ti objasniti, mislim osim ako ne trazis neki podsvesni motiv kod Hamasovaca koga oni nisu svesni. Bukvalno trazis rezon kod ISIS ili Al Kaide.

[Kronostime]

Ima li tu mesta za rezon da nisu svi Palestinci Hamas i da nisu svi bliskoistocni muslimani ISIS ili Al Kaida?

[erwin]

"Ubijanje bez presedana": udeo ubijenih civila je veći nego u bilo kom sukobu u XX veku, uključujući oba svetska rata, kaže Harec.

 

 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/the-israeli-army-has-dropped-the-restraint-in-gaza-and-data-shows-unprecedented-killing/0000018c-4cca-db23-ad9f-6cdae8ad0000

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by erwin

[Selina]

1 hour ago, Kronostime said:

Ima li tu mesta za rezon da nisu svi Palestinci Hamas i da nisu svi bliskoistocni muslimani ISIS ili Al Kaida?

Naravno da nisu, ( ISIS i Al Kaida su druga prica i nemaju bas mnogo veze sa Izraelom), ali recimo Palestinci van Gaze podrzavaju

ovaj masakr Hamasa, ne zato sto su krvozedni i nikako zato sto bi i oni to isto radili nego smatraju da moraju nekako da pokazu svoj

bes prema Izraelu ( a naravno da tu ima ihihihi opravdanja za njihov bes).

Nema opravdanja za bes prema Izraelu kod raznoraznih takozvanih levicara koji i ne razumeju tacno sta se tamo dogadja,

ali mora da se mrzi Izrael. 

[Kronostime]

1 minute ago, Selina said:

Naravno da nisu, ( ISIS i Al Kaida su druga prica i nemaju bas mnogo veze sa Izraelom), ali recimo Palestinci van Gaze podrzavaju

ovaj masakr Hamasa, ne zato sto su krvozedni i nikako zato sto bi i oni to isto radili nego smatraju da moraju nekako da pokazu svoj

bes prema Izraelu ( a naravno da tu ima ihihihi opravdanja za njihov bes).

Nema opravdanja za bes prema Izraelu kod raznoraznih takozvanih levicara koji i ne razumeju tacno sta se tamo dogadja,

ali mora da se mrzi Izrael. 

Mozda ima nesto tu i do Izraela i odnosa prema Palestincima od osnivanja do danas?

[Selina]

1 hour ago, Kronostime said:

Mozda ima nesto tu i do Izraela i odnosa prema Palestincima od osnivanja do danas?

Ima naravno i ne samo nesto, nego ima mnogo toga, ali to znaju i vrapci na grani, izgleda da samo

ovi nevini i naivni levicari to ne znaju, a izgleda da si tu i ti.

Ja razumem svakog Palestinca koji se buni protiv Izraela na ovaj ili onaj nacin ( pri cemu "onaj" m oze da bude i smrtnosan),

ali necu i ne umem da razumem levicare po USA ( a kako vidimo i po Evropi pa cak i Srbiji) koje odjednom n ije

briga za radnicku klasu nego se zamajavaju Hamasom, Izraelom i objasnjavaju nam kako treba da mislimo.

 

[erwin]

Jair Netanjahu, sin izraelskog premijera, koji naravno nije mobilisan i provodi se po Floridi tj. Majami Biču dok mu sunarodnici ginu, okačio na Instagramu mapu po kojoj je Jordan zapravo Palestina, što implicira da je ono što ceo svet smatra okupiranim palestinskim teritorijama zapravo Izrael.

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/stories/yair_netanyahu/3254193523953644804/?hl=en

Edited December 10, 2023 by erwin

[Dragan]

Malo vedrine medju ovim tmurnim vestima.

 

 

[Chaos Is Me]

Ova ne zna ni da pronađe Izrael na mapi.

[Helena]

 Stalno se ubacuju rečenice kako ne razumemo.

Ponavljam odgovor-razumem da je poginulo blizu 18.000 ljudi, od toga 60 % civila-to prenosi Danas, a kao izvor navodi izraelski list Harec.

I šta ima tu dalje da se razume, da se ubacuju nekakvi levičari i ostalo?

 

Tačno je došlo vreme da ne smeš biti čovek jer će ti ovi koji razumeju zalepiti da si antisemit, uz koju sarkastični primedbu.

 

Žalosno, nepotrebno, surovo.

 

[Esli]

2 hours ago, Selina said:

Ja razumem svakog Palestinca koji se buni protiv Izraela na ovaj ili onaj nacin ( pri cemu "onaj" m oze da bude i smrtnosan),

ali necu i ne umem da razumem levicare po USA ( a kako vidimo i po Evropi pa cak i Srbiji) koje odjednom n ije

briga za radnicku klasu nego se zamajavaju Hamasom, Izraelom i objasnjavaju nam kako treba da mislimo.

Levičari u Evropi i SAD simpatišu borbu Palestinaca već decenijama, još pre no što su Hamas i islamizam uopšte počeli da deluju, tu nema ništa novo što je tek sada počelo. PLO je bio levičarska organizacija zasnovana na sekularizmu, Fatah je zvanično socijal-demokratska partija, a njihova borba je tumačena kao narodno-oslobodilačka i anti-kolonijalna, što je levica na Zapadu tradicionalno simpatisala i podržavala. Nisu to samo neki levičari sa uličnih protesta, pogledati npr. stavove Irske danas o palestinskom pitanju, govore Šin Fein poslanika povodom ovog rata. Nije mi jasno kako to levičari objašnjavaju ljudima kako da misle više nego što to radi bilo ko drugi kada zastupa svoje stavove.

[Mama_mia]

3 hours ago, Selina said:

Ima naravno i ne samo nesto, nego ima mnogo toga, ali to znaju i vrapci na grani, izgleda da samo

ovi nevini i naivni levicari to ne znaju, a izgleda da si tu i ti.

Ja razumem svakog Palestinca koji se buni protiv Izraela na ovaj ili onaj nacin ( pri cemu "onaj" m oze da bude i smrtnosan),

ali necu i ne umem da razumem levicare po USA ( a kako vidimo i po Evropi pa cak i Srbiji) koje odjednom n ije

briga za radnicku klasu nego se zamajavaju Hamasom, Izraelom i objasnjavaju nam kako treba da mislimo.

 

 

Izbegavam, jer mislim da se nista ne dokazuje time sto bih da kazem kako na bliskom istoku imam vise prijatelja palestinskih arapa nego kuvajcana/ki. Kuvajcane uopste ne zanima nista sto nisu oni sami i njihov biznis a palestinci u kuvajtu su ljuti na svoje sunardnike i zele sebe da vide u mestima kao sto su kuvajti, izraeli, i sva ostala koliko toliko lepa i normalna mesta gde ne moras da strahujes da ce teroristi da te ucenjuju zbog tvog izbora i zbog toga sto neces da ucestvujes. I dalje mislim da ovo nista ne dokazuje, ali dokazuje bar delimicno - da obrazovani palestinski arapi imaju sasvim drugaciji pogled na svet privatno. Muci ih jedino kada dodje do javnog izjasnjavanja onda se toboz bore za palestinsko pitanje. To pitanje unistava sve palestince zeljne znanja i skolovanja. 

[Helena]

Palestinci prvo treba da prežive da bi bili željni znanja i školovanja.

 

Muka je u izraelskim  bombama.

[McLeod]

Izraelskuh bombi ne bi bilo da nije bilo masakra. Da nije ispaljeno stotine hiljada raketa na Izrael. Na Izrael koji se povukao sa poslednjim Izraelcem iz Gaze i pustio ih da sami upravljaju sobom. I pravi civili dele odgovornost jer ili podrzavaju teroristicki sistem Hamasa, ili se boje da dignu glavu. Na isti nacin kao sto ce 17. decembra ucenjena masa da glasa za Vucica jer jbg sta drugo da radi. Ako vam je zao podrzavaoca terorista (ako ne samih terorista) ne znam kako vam nije zao jadnih SNSovaca koji moraju, nemaju drugu opciju.

[Mama_mia]

35 minutes ago, Helena said:

Palestinci prvo treba da prežive da bi bili željni znanja i školovanja.

 

Muka je u izraelskim  bombama.

 

Posle se bunis kada ti kazu da ne razumes i uprkos tome nesto napises pa cekas da ti se pojasni. Tema nije za takvu provokaciju. A ocigledna je.

 

Jasno govorim o palestinskim arapima i kuvajtu. Oni su na vreme pobegli od hamasa, znaci ovi koji su u kuvajtu su bili zeljni znanja i skolovanja i jesu fantasticni u poslovima koje obavljaju. Oni koji su ostali nisu bili zeljni znanja vec hamasa. Znaci svako moze da izabere svoj put.

 

 

[erwin]

I izraelski civili dele odgovornost za to što podržavaju ili ne dižu glavu protiv onog što su Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch i dve vodeće izraelske organizacije za ljudska prava, Yesh Din i B'Tselem s dobrim argumentima nazvali aparthejdom.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2022/02/qa-israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-cruel-system-of-domination-and-crime-against-humanity/

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occupation-of-the-west-bank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/

https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid

Edited December 10, 2023 by erwin

[Helena]

2 minutes ago, Mama_mia said:

 

Posle se bunis kada ti kazu da ne razumes i uprkos tome nesto napises pa cekas da ti se pojasni. Tema nije za takvu provokaciju. A ocigledna je.

 

Jasno govorim o palestinskim arapima i kuvajtu. Oni su na vreme pobegli od hamasa, znaci ovi koji su u kuvajtu su bili zeljni znanja i skolovanja i jesu fantasticni u poslovima koje obavljaju. Oni koji su ostali nisu bili zeljni znanja vec hamasa. Znaci svako moze da izabere svoj put.

 

 

Ja se bunim na prekomernu upotrebu bombi i ubijanja, sve ostalo je nevažno, kao tvoj broj prijatelja, obrazovanih i drugih.

 

Ovo što si napisala o biiranju puta je žalosno kad pogledaš koliko je poginule dece u ovim napadima.