Epidemija koronavirusa (Covid-19 / SARS-Cov2) - dnevne aktuelnosti iz zemlje i sveta

[Clash]

2 minutes ago, Honey Badger said:

 

Nismo mi nikakva eksperimentalna drzava. Experimente rade strucnjaci i sa nekim planom. Ovdje nema nikakav plan, osim da se pusti sve stihijski, nekontrolisano da bude i prodje, pa ko prezivi, pricace.

 

 

Leptejebo, ovo je do juce bio zaštitni znak Srbije & regiona. 

[...]

Just now, Malkolm Brogdon said:

 

Ovo je slikano negdje kod vas u regionu - na vratima plakati na kojima pise: Akcija...

 

Ali nemam primjedbu na poruku koju slika daje. Toeto.

[riviera]

Quote

50-75% of COVID-19 cases are completely asymptomatic but contagious (a whole city got tested in Italy, ~3k population)

ROME - "The vast majority of people infected with Covid-19, between 50 and 75%, are completely asymptomatic but represent a formidable source of contagion". The Professor of Clinical Immunology of the University of Florence Sergio Romagnani writes this at the top of the Tuscany Region, in anticipation of a strong increase in cases also in the Region, on the basis of the study on the inhabitants of Vo 'Euganeo where the 3000 inhabitants of the country are been subjected to swab.

The immunologist explains that the data provided by the study carried out on all the inhabitants of Vo 'Euganeo highlight two very important information: "the percentage of infected people, even if asymptomatic, in the population is very high and represents the majority of cases above all, but not only that, among young people; and the isolation of asymptomatics is essential to be able to control the spread of the virus and the severity of the disease ".

For Romagnani, what is now crucial in the battle against the virus is "trying to flush out asymptomatic people who are already infected because nobody fears or isolates them. This is particularly true for categories such as doctors and nurses who frequently develop an infection. asymptomatic by continuing to spread the infection between them and their patients. " And again: "It is being decided not to swab doctors and nurses again unless they develop symptoms. But in light of the results of Vo 'study, this decision can be extremely dangerous; hospitals risk becoming areas of high prevalence of infected in which no infected is isolated ".

In Vo '- Romagnani points out - with the isolation of infected subjects, the total number of patients fell from 88 to 7 (at least 10 times less) within 7-10 days. The isolation of the infected (symptomatic or non-symptomatic) was not only able to protect other people from contagion, but also appeared to protect against the serious evolution of the disease in infected subjects because the cure rate in infected patients, if isolated, was in 60% of cases equal to only 8 days.

 

[...]

1 minute ago, CLakiSH said:

Leptejebo, ovo je do juce bio zaštitni znak Srbije & regiona. 

 

Nisam siguran da mi je jasan tvoj komentar?

 

Ko ili sta je bio zastitni znak?

[Sunshine State]

20 minutes ago, McLeod said:

I ja uzimam, ali stvarno mi nije jasno kako, kao neko ko radi u toj industriji, ne vidis u cemu je problem.

 

Evo ako ne verujes meni, veruj drugima koji su takodje rekli da se pustose apoteke i uzima se paracetamol kao besan. Daj bobe da nisu krenuli da ga uzimaju preventivno.

 

Ljudi, shvatite vec jednom da na jednog normalnog dodje pet idiota. Ljudi nisu u proseku, nego apsolutnom vecinom idioti.

 

Idiotima moras da crtas.

 

Necu ja da crtam ovde vama na forumu, samo ocekujem da se bar ovde ljudi ne pecaju na takve stvari "naucnik iz Austrije reko to i to, nemojte brufen cete dumrete" kraj glasovne poruke i nastane haos.

 

Niko da proveri o cemu se radi, od cega/koga je to poteklo, zasto, ima li istine itd.

 

Jos jednom, ko ima nedoumicu, neka procita vest koju sam linkovao.

Pa ne pricam ja, pricaju neki pametniji od mene:

 

Prof Paul Little, Professor of Primary Care Research, University of Southampton, said:

“There is now a sizeable literature from  case control studies in several countries that prolonged illness or the complications of respiratory infections may be more common when NSAIDs are used – both respiratory or septic complications (1-10) and cardiovascular complications (11, 12). The observational evidence is always difficult to interpret due to so called protopathic bias/confounding by indication (i.e. were the NSAIDs prescribed at an early stage of the complications developing and so the NSAID use reflects the complications or a more severe illness rather than causing it), but where this has been controlled for the associations still persists(2). The finding in two  randomised trials that advice to use ibuprofen results in more severe illness or complications (13, 14) helps confirm that the association seen in the observational studies is indeed likely to be causal. Advice to use paracetamol is also less likely to result in complications(13).”

 

 

Prof Ian Jones, Virologist at the University of Reading, said:

“The advice relates to Ibuprofen’s anti-inflammatory properties, that is, it dampens down the immune system, which may slow the recovery process. In addition, it is likely, based on the substantial literature around SARS I and the similarities this new virus (SARS-CoV-2) has to SARS I, that the virus reduces a key enzyme which part-regulates the water and salt concentration in the blood and could be part of the pneumonia seen in extreme cases. Ibuprofen aggravates this while paracetamol does not. It is recommended that people use paracetamol to reduce temperature if you are feverish.”

 

 

 

 

Prof Paul Little, Professor of Primary Care Research, University of Southampton, said:

“There is now a sizeable literature from  case control studies in several countries that prolonged illness or the complications of respiratory infections may be more common when NSAIDs are used – both respiratory or septic complications (1-10) and cardiovascular complications (11, 12). The observational evidence is always difficult to interpret due to so called protopathic bias/confounding by indication (i.e. were the NSAIDs prescribed at an early stage of the complications developing and so the NSAID use reflects the complications or a more severe illness rather than causing it), but where this has been controlled for the associations still persists(2). The finding in two  randomised trials that advice to use ibuprofen results in more severe illness or complications (13, 14) helps confirm that the association seen in the observational studies is indeed likely to be causal. Advice to use paracetamol is also less likely to result in complications(13).”

 

 

Prof Ian Jones, Virologist at the University of Reading, said:

“The advice relates to Ibuprofen’s anti-inflammatory properties, that is, it dampens down the immune system, which may slow the recovery process. In addition, it is likely, based on the substantial literature around SARS I and the similarities this new virus (SARS-CoV-2) has to SARS I, that the virus reduces a key enzyme which part-regulates the water and salt concentration in the blood and could be part of the pneumonia seen in extreme cases. Ibuprofen aggravates this while paracetamol does not. It is recommended that people use paracetamol to reduce temperature if you are feverish.”

 

Dr Tom Wingfield, Senior Clinical Lecturer and Honorary Consultant Physician, Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, said:

“In the UK, paracetamol would generally be preferred over non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (“NSAIDS”) such as ibuprofen to relieve symptoms caused by infection such as fever. This is because, when taken according to  the manufacturer’s and/or a health professional’s instructions in terms of timing and maximum dosage, it is less likely to cause side effects. Side effects associated with NSAIDs such as ibuprofen, especially if taken regularly for a prolonged period, are stomach irritation and stress on the kidneys, which can be more severe in people who already have stomach or kidney issues. It is not clear from the French Minister’s comments whether the advice given is generic “good practice” guidance or specifically related to data emerging from cases of Covid-19 but this might become clear in due course. It should also be noted that, in the UK, we would not commonly use cortisone to relieve infection-related symptoms such as fever.”

 

Dr Rupert Beale, Group Leader in Cell Biology of Infection at The Francis Crick Institute

“There is a good reason to avoid ibuprofen as it may exacerbate acute kidney injury brought on by any severe illness, including severe COVID-19 disease. There isn’t yet any widely accepted additional reason to avoid it for COVID-19. Patients taking cortisone or other steroids should not stop them except on advice from their doctor. The Society for Endocrinology has issued advice for patients who are taking hydrocortisone or other steroids for pituitary or adrenal deficiency. https://www.endocrinology.org/news/item/14050/Coronavirus-advice-statement-for-patients-with-adrenal%2fpituitary-insufficiency.”

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Sunshine State
correction

[Clash]

1 minute ago, Honey Badger said:

 

Nisam siguran da mi je jasan tvoj komentar?

 

Ko ili sta je bio zastitni znak?

Ovo sto si napisao : Ovdje nema nikakav plan, osim da se pusti sve stihijski.

 

To je kod nas u Srbiji način rešavanja svih problema.

[McLeod]

@Sunshine State sve se to odnosi na dugotrajnu terapiju i uglavnom kardiovaskularne bolesnike, ne na opstu populaciju.

[...]

6 minutes ago, CLakiSH said:

Ovo sto si napisao : Ovdje nema nikakav plan, osim da se pusti sve stihijski.

 

To je kod nas u Srbiji način rešavanja svih problema.

 

Aha.

 

Pa tako mi djeluje.

 

Ocekivao bih od PM-a da izadje i kaze da ce biti sve OK, da se ne panici i ne kupuje sve sto ima, da ce biti hrane. Medjutim, oni raspravljaju kako da ne plate osiguranje malim preduzecima koja propadaju ili kako da izvuku avio kompanije. Valjda stanovnistvo jos nije doslo na red. 

 

Ovi sto rade u gig-ekonomiji su posebno najebali. Ovaj sto je maloprije ukrao konzervu graha je garant jedan od tih. Imam osjecaj da ce da postane puno gore prije nego pocne da postaje bolje.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Honey Badger

[Sunshine State]

1 minute ago, McLeod said:

@Sunshine State sve se to odnosi na dugotrajnu terapiju i uglavnom kardiovaskularne bolesnike, ne na opstu populaciju.

 

Gde pise "dugotrajna terapija", recimo u ovom dole? 

Izdvajam:

"... that prolonged illness or the complications of respiratory infections may be more common when NSAIDs are used.....

The finding in two  randomised trials that advice to use ibuprofen results in more severe illness or complications  helps confirm that the association seen in the observational studies is indeed likely to be causal"

 

Prof Paul Little, Professor of Primary Care Research, University of Southampton, said:

 

“There is now a sizeable literature from  case control studies in several countries that prolonged illness or the complications of respiratory infections may be more common when NSAIDs are used – both respiratory or septic complications (1-10) and cardiovascular complications (11, 12). The observational evidence is always difficult to interpret due to so called protopathic bias/confounding by indication (i.e. were the NSAIDs prescribed at an early stage of the complications developing and so the NSAID use reflects the complications or a more severe illness rather than causing it), but where this has been controlled for the associations still persists(2). The finding in two  randomised trials that advice to use ibuprofen results in more severe illness or complications (13, 14) helps confirm that the association seen in the observational studies is indeed likely to be causal. Advice to use paracetamol is also less likely to result in complication

[Down With The Sickness]

31 minutes ago, Sunshine State said:

 

Ja razumem o cemu pricas, i prva stvar i u mojoj struci, kao i u medicini je "do no harm" - da nije tako, pola lekova bi bilo na trzistu posle dva meseca, a ne posle 10 godina ispitivanja.

 

U konkretnom slucaju, ibuprofen vs. paracetamol - koji je, actually, harm, ako neko poslusa, pa uzme paracetamol umesto ibuprofen? Nikakav, ili skoro zanemarljiv ... stoga, ne vidim cemu tolika buna oko ovog - ja licno, i inace, uzimam paracetamol (acetaminophen)/caffeine (Panadol extra, ), a ne ibuprofen/ Brufen/Advil

Ja ako sam dobro razumeo ovi Vucicevi su za acetaminofen, a ovi kobajagi opozicija -jeremicevi i dverjani su za brufen. 

 

Nije to bas tako jednostavno i logicno kako ti zamisljas.

[Sunshine State]

Evo na TC sam, opet nam lekari iz US ponavljaju da se wave in the US ocekuje u julu, avgustu... 😞

 

 

[nonick]

43 minutes ago, Cavani said:

Jedini odgovor na ovo je da ima duplo vise zarazenih nego sto je registrovanih kod njih, minimum.

 

a mozda i 5 do 10 puta. Ne samo kod njih nego skoro svugde.

[Sunshine State]

16 minutes ago, riviera said:

The isolation of the infected (symptomatic or non-symptomatic) was not only able to protect other people from contagion, but also appeared to protect against the serious evolution of the disease in infected subjects because the cure rate in infected patients, if isolated, was in 60% of cases equal to only 8 days.

 

Ako je zaista tako (ovde opet dolazimo do toga koliko je sve nepoznato i nepotrvrdjeno), odakle jos uvek 233 (1/3) active cases na Diamond Princess, koji je u karantinu jos od 1 februara?

A tu su kontrolisani uslovi, pretpostavljam da je ozbiljan karantin/izolacija, pa vec 6 nedelja traje agonija, uz trecinu jos uvek aktivnih slucajeva.

 

 

 

[Jerotije Pantic]

 

[Asterion]

 

[Sunshine State]

6 minutes ago, nonick said:

 

a mozda i 5 do 10 puta. Ne samo kod njih nego skoro svugde.

 

Johns Hopkins professor estimates at least 50,000 people have coronavirus in US

 

“Don’t believe the numbers when you see, even on our Johns Hopkins website, that 1,600 Americans have the virus,” Makary said. “No, that means 1,600 got the test, tested positive. There are probably 25 to 50 people who have the virus for every one person who is confirmed.”

 

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487562-johns-hopkins-professor-estimates-at-least-50000-people-have-coronavirus-in

[Asterion]

Pazite šta kupujete od robe za dezinfekciju.

 

Primer iz Slovenije.

 

 

Moj primer: U nekim prodavnicama je pisalo na embalaži Dezinfekcijsko sredstvo za ruke, a nigde na embalaži nije pisalo koliko ima etanola/izopropanola. Ljudi sve to pokupovali.

Ti proizvodi su bili složeni odma uz blagajnu, da ljudi brže vide i navale.

[McLeod]

23 minutes ago, Honey Badger said:

 

 

 

Ovi sto rade u gig-ekonomiji su posebno najebali. Ovaj sto je maloprije ukrao konzervu graha je garant jedan od tih. Imam osjecaj da ce da postane puno gore prije nego pocne da postaje bolje.

 

 

 

Evo iskreno, od kako je ovo krenulo, vrlo malo mojih kolega prijavljuje da imaju problem, a u nekim industrijama imaju i duplo vise posla.

 

Recimo, shutdown sporta je prouzrokovao da ogroman broj bettora predje na kazino sada, ta industrija sad bukvalno cveta, ne bi me cudilo da se u martu pokaze da je vise nego duplo lagano.

[Prijatelj Mitar]

15 minutes ago, nonick said:

 

a mozda i 5 do 10 puta. Ne samo kod njih nego skoro svugde.

 

Mozda taj virus cirkulise od januara kod nas ali nije bilo testova.

[riviera]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine State said:

 

Ako je zaista tako (ovde opet dolazimo do toga koliko je sve nepoznato i nepotrvrdjeno), odakle jos uvek 233 (1/3) active cases na Diamond Princess, koji je u karantinu jos od 1 februara?

A tu su kontrolisani uslovi, pretpostavljam da je ozbiljan karantin/izolacija, pa vec 6 nedelja traje agonija, uz trecinu jos uvek aktivnih slucajeva.

 

 

 

da ne spekulisem (ali cu spekulisati) zar nisu ta krstarenja vrlo cesto sport za starije osobe. mozda otud i duzi period kompletnog "ciscenja" organizma od virusa.

ovaj txt iz italije je pre svega upozorenje za mladji deo populacije da im se skrene paznja na to u kom % mogu da budu prenosioci zaraze a da toga sami nisu ni svesni. posto je pisan za italijanske citaoce ne bi me iznenadilo i da u sebi sadrzi propagandne motive usmerene na mlade kako bi im se ukazalo na problem. vidim da nesto slicno rade i sa izvestajima sestara i doktora gde se potencira svaki slucaj nekog mladjeg i zdravog koji se trenutno leci kod njih, da preplasi tu starosnu grupu i natera ih da se vise pridrzavaju pravila a sve u pokusaju da se nastali pozar odrzi nekako pod kontrolom. - samo moja pretpostavka.

[мајор јосип]

1 hour ago, kalistenika u rutini said:

@marejosip

 

drug, kako si,  je l' ima nekih promena?

 

Ne mogu reći da mi je mnogo bolje, ali svakako nije gore, hvala na pitanju. 

I dalje osećam manju iscrpljenost i glava me dosta boli, ali nema i dalje nekog većeg kašlja, ni temperature. 

Nisam za sve ovo vreme izlazio iz kuće, ali s obzirom na tip bola i razvitak situacije, kao i na to sa se niko od ljudi sa kojima sam provodio dosta vremena prošle nedelje ne žale na neke virusne simptome, mislim da će biti da je samo neka upala sinusa u pitanju. 

Nadam se da će me i ovo uskoro proći.  

[Sunshine State]

Razmisljam naglas i racunam, uzimajuci u obzir brojke lekara iz Johns Hopkins - ako ima 25-50 zarazenih na jednog potvrdjeno zarazeno, brojke u ovom trenutku za US su onda ovako:

 

Zarazenih: 4700, znaci  120 k - 250 k (in reality)

Umrlih: 93

U kriticnom stanju: 12

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Sunshine State
potvrdjeno zarazenog

[...]

11 minutes ago, McLeod said:

 

Evo iskreno, od kako je ovo krenulo, vrlo malo mojih kolega prijavljuje da imaju problem, a u nekim industrijama imaju i duplo vise posla.

 

Recimo, shutdown sporta je prouzrokovao da ogroman broj bettora predje na kazino sada, ta industrija sad bukvalno cveta, ne bi me cudilo da se u martu pokaze da je vise nego duplo lagano.

 

Ne razumijem o cemu pricas, ko su ti kolege i sta su bettora sto prelaze na kazino?

 

Ja pricam o ljudima koji bivaju poslati kuci bez plate, otpusteni jer se radno mjesto zatvara, to su ovi koji rade u ugostiteljstvu i slicnim granama privrede. 

 

'The government has abandoned us': gig economy workers struggle to cope

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/17/the-government-has-abandoned-us-gig-economy-workers-struggle-to-cope

[SamoFlacko]

Ma ne samo ugostiteljstvo, vec bilo kakva proizvodnja koja zavisi od sirovina iz inostranstva, stace i sva gradilista.

[McLeod]

2 minutes ago, Honey Badger said:

 

Ne razumijem o cemu pricas, ko su ti kolege i sta su bettora sto prelaze na kazino?

 

Ja pricam o ljudima koji bivaju poslati kuci bez plate, otpusteni jer se radno mjesto zatvara, to su ovi koji rade u ugostiteljstvu i slicnim granama privrede. 

 

'The government has abandoned us': gig economy workers struggle to cope

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/17/the-government-has-abandoned-us-gig-economy-workers-struggle-to-cope

 

Oni su samo jedan deo price u gig ekonomiji i iskreno nisu mi ni pali na pamet, izvinjavam se.

 

Mislio sam na frilensere, konsultante i druge nezavisne profesionalce, honorarce.