Bliski Istok

[Mama_mia]

Da dopunim svoj prethodni post.....znaci radilo se o atentatu na autobuskoj stanici u Jerusalimu, a koji je izvela majmunska teroristicka grupa podrzavana od strane naivnih i zagupljenih (indoktriniranih) nesrecnika, civila i militanata,   ali i od strane ne tako naivnih a medju njima je i rasida tlaib, aoc, ilhan omar i slicne kao i mnogobrojni slicni diljem sveta..Jer ipak to su sve zagovornici Prekida Vatre. Obavezno.

 

video ima trigger warning 

 

 

 

[A sad]

Primirje vise nema nikakvog smisla. Posle danasnjeg natezania oko oslobadjanja taoca i potpuno jasnog nepostovanja uslova primirja, svega onoga sta se desava oko porodice Bibos i malog Kfira, potpuno unistenje Hamasa je jedini put kojim treba nastaviti. Nista drugo vise nema smisla. 

[bohumilo]

Evo jedna narodna zagonetka:

 

U podrumu - džihadista!
Na krovu je - Jevrej, dijete.
A između - sprat nad spratom,
Domaće rakete.

 

Šta je to?

 

Škola Ujedinjenih nacija. 

 

To su bazične vrednosti koje UN promoviše. I koje Bajden finansira, nakon što im je mister Tramp bio zavrnuo slavinu, i opet će za godinu dana. Pa kad promovišeš genocid, terorizam i revoluciju onda cvili kod Putina da ti da pare za "školu", "decu" i "bolnicu".

 

Eve ih, revolucionari koji su sebi metili značku "žene" skoro 2 meseca ćute kao mule o silovanju Jevrejki, onda napisali prvi post u kojem su osudili Hamas, međutim - kako reče ovdašnji otac nacije - strepnja beše dublja od nade, te se brzo popišmanili i obrisali post:

 

Amid outcry over silence, UN Women posts, then deletes, condemnation of Hamas attack
 

Jer, jeste da je sve snimljeno kamerama, ali znate kako, ne treba osuđivati preko kolena, stvari su vruće, potrebna je "nezavisna istraga" or(an)g(ut)ana (i orangutanki) iz UN-a pa će ONDA doći do osude Ham...ovaj nekoga, ako je neko kriv. Osim ako ministarstvo zdravlja šta ne kaže, jer je to jedini relevantan izvor u UN-u:

 

 

Tako da je za sada jedino pominjanje Hamasa na nalogu UN-ovog A-Fe-Že-a proslava terorističke "inkluzije i diverziteta" (da ga nazovemo inkldiv, u duhu totalitarnog korišćenja jezika, kako je i veliki Orvel to lepo primetio) :

 

 

 

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Optiministične vesti su da premijer Netanjahu, koji je inače sklon kompromisima i primirjima i odbijanju da se pobedi u ratu najavljuje nastavak i devetanje zločinaca do samog kraja i obezedjivanja uslova da se zlo više ne može ponoviti:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-gallant-emphatic-war-will-resume-soon-as-truce-appears-set-for-extension/

Edited November 30, 2023 by bohumilo

[033zero330]

Stvarno ne znam, ko uopšte više može da uzme u obzir, takozvane "ujedinjene nacije" u gazi.

 

Pre skoro deset godina:

 

UN admits Palestinians fired rockets from UNRWA schools

[erwin]

Nastavljen rat. Izraelci kažu da su presreli Hamasove rakete i da nastavljaju operacije. Palestinci objavili da već ima 6 mrtvih i više desetina povređenih u brojnim avio-napadima.

 

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[erwin]

Izraelski internet portal +972 Magazine objavio je detaljni opis izraelske "mašinerije za masovnu likvidaciju", koja je u stanju da brže generiše mete nego što vojska može da pobaca bombe. Navodi se da su namerno gađane visoke zgrade i institucije od minimalnog vojnog značaja da bi palestinsko stanovništvo izvršilo pritisak na Hamas. Članak je na engleskom.

 

Tizeri:

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„Ništa se ne dešava slučajno“, rekao je drugi izvor. „Kada se trogodišnja devojčica ubije u nekoj kući u Gazi, to je zato što je neko u vojsci odlučio da nije važno da li će ona biti ubijena — da je to cena koju vredi platiti da bi se pogodio [drugi] cilj. Mi nismo Hamas. Ovo nisu nasumične rakete. Sve je namerno. Znamo tačno kolika je kolateralna šteta u svakom domu.”

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Drugi izvor je rekao da je viši obaveštajac rekao svojim oficirima posle 7. oktobra da je cilj bio da se „ubije što više Hamasovih operativaca“ i da su u tu svrhu kriterijumi po pitanju povređivanja palestinskih civila znatno olabavljeni. U tom smislu, postoje „slučajevi u kojima granatiramo na osnovu nepreciznog određivanja gde se nalazi meta na osnovu mobilne telefonije, pritom ubijajući civile. Ovo se često radi da bi se uštedelo vreme, umesto da se uloži malo više truda radi preciznijeg određivanja njihovog položaja“, rekao je izvor.

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Ima i u ovom nizu tvitova nekoliko citata.
 

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Edited December 1, 2023 by erwin

[Dzoni_m]

Dok su pokusavali da ih puste da zive kao hoce u Gazi i obaraju njihove rakete koje su dnevno ispaljivali, onda su mislili o kolateralu. Kada je HAMAS pokazao svoje zlocinancko lice, znaravno da ce kriterijumi biti olabaljeni kada se zna da HAMAS koristi svoju decu, stare i bolesne kao zivi stit. 

[Beonegro]

  On 12/1/2023 at 9:25 AM, Dzoni_m said:

Dok su pokusavali da ih puste da zive kao hoce u Gazi i obaraju njihove rakete koje su dnevno ispaljivali, onda su mislili o kolateralu. Kada je HAMAS pokazao svoje zlocinancko lice, znaravno da ce kriterijumi biti olabaljeni kada se zna da HAMAS koristi svoju decu, stare i bolesne kao zivi stit. 

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Kriterijumi će biti olabaljeni samo u tvojoj glavi:

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Thursday told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Israel's military operations in southern Gaza must not repeat the massive loss of civilian life and displacement seen during its offensive in the north

....

"We discussed the details of Israel's ongoing planning and I underscored the imperative for the United States that the massive loss of civilian life and displacement of the scale that we saw in northern Gaza not be repeated in the South," Blinken said

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"Israel understands the imperative of protecting civilians, the imperative of the humanitarian assistance, and will continue to work to ensure that that carries forward in practice," he said. "As I told the prime minister, intent matters, but so does the result."

[Dzoni_m]

U erwinovom postu se pise o kriterijumima koji nisu vise isti. Nisam ja to izmislio. A razlog je sasvim logican. 

Izjave su super. Podrzavam ih i ne verujem da ce biti problem. 

[erwin]

Izrael je pre više od godinu dana otkrio Hamasov ratni plan za operaciju "Poplava Al Akse" sprovedenu 7.X, ali su njegovi stručnjaci smatrali da je tako obiman i ambiciozan napad iznad Hamasovih mogućnosti, tvrdi Njujork tajms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

 

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Edited December 1, 2023 by erwin

[Beonegro]

  On 12/1/2023 at 11:01 AM, erwin said:

Izrael je otkrio Hamasov ratni plan za operaciju "Poplava Al Akse" sprovedenu 7.X pre više od godinu dana, ali su njegovi stručnjaci smatrali da je tako obiman i ambiciozan napad iznad Hamasovih mogućnosti, tvrdi Njujork tajms.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

 

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Koliko vidim, kompletan članak je na sajtu NYT, ima tu skeri šita:

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago

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Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7.

The plan also included details about the location and size of Israeli military forces, communication hubs and other sensitive information, raising questions about how Hamas gathered its intelligence and whether there were leaks inside the Israeli security establishment.

The document circulated widely among Israeli military and intelligence leaders, but experts determined that an attack of that scale and ambition was beyond Hamas’s capabilities, according to documents and officials. It is unclear whether Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or other top political leaders saw the document, as well.

Last year, shortly after the document was obtained, officials in the Israeli military’s Gaza division, which is responsible for defending the border with Gaza, said that Hamas’s intentions were unclear.

“It is not yet possible to determine whether the plan has been fully accepted and how it will be manifested,” read a military assessment reviewed by The Times.

Then, in July, just three months before the attacks, a veteran analyst with Unit 8200, Israel’s signals intelligence agency, warned that Hamas had conducted an intense, daylong training exercise that appeared similar to what was outlined in the blueprint.

But a colonel in the Gaza division brushed off her concerns, according to encrypted emails viewed by The Times.

“I utterly refute that the scenario is imaginary,” the analyst wrote in the email exchanges. The Hamas training exercise, she said, fully matched “the content of Jericho Wall.”

“It is a plan designed to start a war,” she added. “It’s not just a raid on a village.”

Officials privately concede that, had the military taken these warnings seriously and redirected significant reinforcements to the south, where Hamas attacked, Israel could have blunted the attacks or possibly even prevented them.

Instead, the Israeli military was unprepared as terrorists streamed out of the Gaza Strip. It was the deadliest day in Israel’s history.

Israeli security officials have already acknowledged that they failed to protect the country, and the government is expected to assemble a commission to study the events leading up to the attacks. The Jericho Wall document lays bare a yearslong cascade of missteps that culminated in what officials now regard as the worst Israeli intelligence failure since the surprise attack that led to the Arab-Israeli war of 1973.

Underpinning all these failures was a single, fatally inaccurate belief that Hamas lacked the capability to attack and would not dare to do so. That belief was so ingrained in the Israeli government, officials said, that they disregarded growing evidence to the contrary.

The Israeli military and the Israeli Security Agency, which is in charge of counterterrorism in Gaza, declined to comment.

Officials would not say how they obtained the Jericho Wall document, but it was among several versions of attack plans collected over the years. A 2016 Defense Ministry memorandum viewed by The Times, for example, says, “Hamas intends to move the next confrontation into Israeli territory.”

Such an attack would most likely involve hostage-taking and “occupying an Israeli community (and perhaps even a number of communities),” the memo reads.

The Jericho Wall document, named for the ancient fortifications in the modern-day West Bank, was even more explicit. It detailed rocket attacks to distract Israeli soldiers and send them hurrying into bunkers, and drones to disable the elaborate security measures along the border fence separating Israel and Gaza.

Hamas fighters would then break through 60 points in the wall, storming across the border into Israel. The document begins with a quote from the Quran: “Surprise them through the gate. If you do, you will certainly prevail.”

The same phrase has been widely used by Hamas in its videos and statements since Oct. 7.

One of the most important objectives outlined in the document was to overrun the Israeli military base in Re’im, which is home to the Gaza division responsible for protecting the region. Other bases that fell under the division’s command were also listed.

Hamas carried out that objective on Oct. 7, rampaging through Re’im and overrunning parts of the base.

The audacity of the blueprint, officials said, made it easy to underestimate. All militaries write plans that they never use, and Israeli officials assessed that, even if Hamas invaded, it might muster a force of a few dozen, not the hundreds who ultimately attacked.

Israel had also misread Hamas’s actions. The group had negotiated for permits to allow Palestinians to work in Israel, which Israeli officials took as a sign that Hamas was not looking for a war.

But Hamas had been drafting attack plans for many years, and Israeli officials had gotten hold of previous iterations of them. What could have been an intelligence coup turned into one of the worst miscalculations in Israel’s 75-year history.

In September 2016, the defense minister’s office compiled a top-secret memorandum based on a much earlier iteration of a Hamas attack plan. The memorandum, which was signed by the defense minister at the time, Avigdor Lieberman, said that an invasion and hostage-taking would “lead to severe damage to the consciousness and morale of the citizens of Israel.”

The memo, which was viewed by The Times, said that Hamas had purchased sophisticated weapons, GPS jammers and drones. It also said that Hamas had increased its fighting force to 27,000 people — having added 6,000 to its ranks in a two-year period. Hamas had hoped to reach 40,000 by 2020, the memo determined.

Last year, after Israel obtained the Jericho Wall document, the military’s Gaza division drafted its own intelligence assessment of this latest invasion plan.

Hamas had “decided to plan a new raid, unprecedented in its scope,” analysts wrote in the assessment reviewed by The Times. It said that Hamas intended to carry out a deception operation followed by a “large-scale maneuver” with the aim of overwhelming the division.

But the Gaza division referred to the plan as a “compass.” In other words, the division determined that Hamas knew where it wanted to go but had not arrived there yet.

On July 6, 2023, the veteran Unit 8200 analyst wrote to a group of other intelligence experts that dozens of Hamas commandos had recently conducted training exercises, with senior Hamas commanders observing.

The training included a dry run of shooting down Israeli aircraft and taking over a kibbutz and a military training base, killing all the cadets. During the exercise, Hamas fighters used the same phrase from the Quran that appeared at the top of the Jericho Wall attack plan, she wrote in the email exchanges viewed by The Times.

The analyst warned that the drill closely followed the Jericho Wall plan, and that Hamas was building the capacity to carry it out.

The colonel in the Gaza division applauded the analysis but said the exercise was part of a “totally imaginative” scenario, not an indication of Hamas’s ability to pull it off.

“In short, let’s wait patiently,” the colonel wrote.

The back-and-forth continued, with some colleagues supporting the analyst’s original conclusion. Soon, she invoked the lessons of the 1973 war, in which Syrian and Egyptian armies overran Israeli defenses. Israeli forces regrouped and repelled the invasion, but the intelligence failure has long served as a lesson for Israeli security officials.

“We already underwent a similar experience 50 years ago on the southern front in connection with a scenario that seemed imaginary, and history may repeat itself if we are not careful,” the analyst wrote to her colleagues.

While ominous, none of the emails predicted that war was imminent. Nor did the analyst challenge the conventional wisdom among Israeli intelligence officials that Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, was not interested in war with Israel. But she correctly assessed that Hamas’s capabilities had drastically improved. The gap between the possible and the aspirational had narrowed significantly.

The failures to connect the dots echoed another analytical failure more than two decades ago, when the American authorities also had multiple indications that the terrorist group Al Qaeda was preparing an assault. The Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were largely a failure of analysis and imagination, a government commission concluded.

“The Israeli intelligence failure on Oct. 7 is sounding more and more like our 9/11,” said Ted Singer, a recently retired senior C.I.A. official who worked extensively in the Middle East. “The failure will be a gap in analysis to paint a convincing picture to military and political leadership that Hamas had the intention to launch the attack when it did.”

 

[deez nuts.]

Nadam se da ce gradjani Izraela traziti Bibijevu glavu posle ovog otkrica. 

[Sunshine State]

  On 12/1/2023 at 11:01 AM, erwin said:

Izrael je pre više od godinu dana otkrio Hamasov ratni plan za operaciju "Poplava Al Akse" sprovedenu 7.X, ali su njegovi stručnjaci smatrali da je tako obiman i ambiciozan napad iznad Hamasovih mogućnosti, tvrdi Njujork tajms.

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Onda ne treba da cudi ovakav overreaction od strane Izraela, ako su skontali da je Hamas, ipak, u stanju da uradi tako nesto.

 

Kakav odgovor bi bio primeren na ono od 7. oktobra?

Handpicking Hamasovaca? 

 

Izrael je unapred najavljivao napade i davao mogucnost civilima da se izvuku.

 

Meni je zao civila u Gazi, isto kao sto mi je bilo zao mene i svih dragih ljudi tokom bombardovanja...razmisljas, "Sta smo ja i moji krivi sto je Milosevic idiot, nikad nismo glasali za njega,  a treba sad da poginemo zbog njega?"

 

Cuveni collateral damage... i ovde je malo previse

 

[DameTime]

  On 12/1/2023 at 11:27 AM, Sunshine State said:

Izrael je unapred najavljivao napade i davao mogucnost civilima da se izvuku.

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Gde da se izvuku? Bombarduju se i sever i jug, pritom smešno je da uopšte govorimo o severu i jugu s obzirom na površinu pojasa Gaze. Nema izlaza, nema izvlačenja, nema sigurnog mesta za civile. 

[Sunshine State]

  On 12/1/2023 at 11:29 AM, DameTime said:

 

Gde da se izvuku? Bombarduju se i sever i jug, pritom smešno je da uopšte govorimo o severu i jugu s obzirom na površinu pojasa Gaze. Nema izlaza, nema izvlačenja, nema sigurnog mesta za civile. 

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https://www.npr.org/2023/11/10/1212069162/israel-gaza-fighting-pause-explained

 

"Israel has agreed to allow civilians stuck in northern Gaza time to move safely to areas in the south for several hours each day, the White House announced.

This ostensibly will also allow more aid to reach Palestinians in Gaza, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told reporters Thursday.

Going forward, there will be an announcement made three hours before each pause, Kirby said.

Israel is referring to this as a humanitarian corridor.

"Israel has an obligation to fully comply with international law, and we believe these pauses are a step in the right direction, particularly to help ensure that civilians have an opportunity to reach safer areas away from the act of fighting," Kirby said Thursday"

 

 

[McLeod]

UN treba rasformirati, odavno to pricam. Nicemu ne sluze vec dugo, a sad su postale i kontraproduktivne.

[DameTime]

  On 12/1/2023 at 11:47 AM, Sunshine State said:

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/10/1212069162/israel-gaza-fighting-pause-explained

 

"Israel has agreed to allow civilians stuck in northern Gaza time to move safely to areas in the south for several hours each day, the White House announced.

This ostensibly will also allow more aid to reach Palestinians in Gaza, National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told reporters Thursday.

Going forward, there will be an announcement made three hours before each pause, Kirby said.

Israel is referring to this as a humanitarian corridor.

"Israel has an obligation to fully comply with international law, and we believe these pauses are a step in the right direction, particularly to help ensure that civilians have an opportunity to reach safer areas away from the act of fighting," Kirby said Thursday"

 

 

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Pa da, pošalju ih na jug da ih tamo bombarduju.

[erwin]

  On 12/1/2023 at 11:47 AM, Sunshine State said:

move safely to areas in the south

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Gađan je i jug dosta.

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Npr. kažu da je danas gađana Rafa (mesto kod prelaza s Egiptom, jedinog otvorenog za pomoć) i ubijeno 10 ljudi.

 

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Novi leci kažu da Palestinci treba da napuste Han Junis i idu upravo u tu danas gađanu Rafu:

 

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Izraelska vojska je malopre objavila link na interaktivnu mapu i po njima Palestinci treba da u realnom vremenu prate koja područja su trenutno ratne zone i da se evakuišu iz njih.
 

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Ostatak teksta:

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This enables the residents of Gaza to orient themselves and to evacuate from specific places for their safety if required. The IDF's website and spokesperson in Arabic released the relevant information on social networks. This map for Gazan civilians was published in announcements distributed by the IDF in Gaza: https://idf.il/152678/

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[Sunshine State]

Pa, in general, svako snosi svoj deo odgovornosti za zla koja cini - Izrael za sve ono sto je protivno svim konvencijama, a Hamas za ono sto je uradio 7. oktobra.

 

Neko je vec par puta pitao, a to je ono sto i mene iznimno zanima - sta je Hamas mislio da postigne onim napadom 7.oktobra i kakva reakcija Izraela je bila ocekivana, a da je prihvatljiva i Izraelu i Hamasu i civilima i medjunarodnoj zajednici?

[Beonegro]

  On 12/1/2023 at 11:49 AM, McLeod said:

UN treba rasformirati, odavno to pricam. Nicemu ne sluze vec dugo, a sad su postale i kontraproduktivne.

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Zaboravio si da poentiraš sa bajo moj

 

[Beonegro]

  On 12/1/2023 at 12:16 PM, Sunshine State said:

Pa, in general, svako snosi svoj deo odgovornosti za zla koja cini - Izrael za sve ono sto je protivno svim konvencijama, a Hamas za ono sto je uradio 7. oktobra.

 

Neko je vec par puta pitao, a to je ono sto i mene iznimno zanima - sta je Hamas mislio da postigne onim napadom 7.oktobra i kakva reakcija Izraela je bila ocekivana, a da je prihvatljiva i Izraelu i Hamasu i civilima i medjunarodnoj zajednici?

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  On 10/7/2023 at 6:43 PM, Beonegro said:

Politički i vojni vođe Palestinaca ne rade za Palestince, nego za Iran (i ovi raketni napadi su mogući samo zahvaljujući iranskoj tehnologiji, Palestinci ništa od toga ne bi mogli da naprave sami), a Iranu odgovara da Izraelci naprave pokolj na Zapadnoj Obali.

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*-Pojasu Gaze, ne Zapadnoj Obali

[McLeod]

  On 12/1/2023 at 12:19 PM, Beonegro said:

 

Zaboravio si da poentiraš sa bajo moj

 

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Dobar.

 

Nego, zasto ne? Sto bi rekli, cemu ovo sluzi, a uz to i ne radi?

 

Bukvalno im je poslednji uspeh zabelezen u devedesetima, posle toga fejluju konstantno.

[Beonegro]

  On 12/1/2023 at 12:29 PM, McLeod said:

Nego, zasto ne? Sto bi rekli, cemu ovo sluzi, a uz to i ne radi?

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Zato što su UN nekakav set pravila i forum za diskusiju i, koliko god da su manjkave, i dalje su bolje od totalnog haosa koji bi bez njih usledio.

[McLeod]

  On 12/1/2023 at 12:34 PM, Beonegro said:

Zato što su UN nekakav set pravila i forum za diskusiju i, koliko god da su manjkave, i dalje su bolje od totalnog haosa koji bi bez njih usledio.

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Ne znamo da li bi usledio potpuni haos (da ne kazem da je taj argument u rangu - svi su isti, pa za koga da glasam, bolje Vucic da ostane jer je neka vrsta stabilnosti nego da se nesto menja i nastaje haos), a u svakom slucaju je potrebno da se izvrsi reorganizacija jer ovakve kakve su ne mogu doneti nijednu odluku i samo jedu pare.

Edited December 1, 2023 by McLeod

[Beonegro]

  On 12/1/2023 at 12:38 PM, McLeod said:

 

Ne znamo da li bi usledio potpuni haos, a u svakom slucaju je potrebno da se izvrsi reorganizacija jer ovakve kakve su ne mogu doneti nijednu odluku i samo jedu pare.

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Što se tiče haosa, zamisli samo šta bi to značilo za nuklearnu proliferaciju. Bez UN i IAEA bi za 10 godina imao 20 zemalja sa nuklearnim oružjem. 

Što se tiče reorganizacije, treba prvo da se pojavi neko sa predlogom oko koga bi moglo da se okupi bar dvije trećine planete.

  On 12/1/2023 at 12:38 PM, McLeod said:

da ne kazem da je taj argument u rangu - svi su isti, pa za koga da glasam, bolje Vucic da ostane

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Ajde ne sramoti se.