Opšte diskusije

[wwww]

evo i liste aktivnih igraca na betonu:

 

1. Novak

2. Fed

3. Nadal

4. Endi

5. Medvedev

6. Zverev

7. Wawrinka

8. Tsonga

9.Cilic

10.Kei

11.Raonic

12.Tim

13.Isner

14.Monf

15.Dimitrov

16.Tsitsipas

17.Rubljov

18.Gaske

19.Gofan

20.Simon

21.RBA

22.Kirios

23.Feli

24.Khachanov

25.Kveri

26.Shapo

27.Sinner

28.PCB

29.Hurkacz

30.Sock

31. Pui

32. Verdasco

33.FAA

34.Norrie

35.De MInaur

36.Beretini

37.Alcaraz

38.Fritz

39.Karlovic

40.Karatsev

41. Gulbis

42. Opelka

43. Basilashvili

44. Ruud

45. Coric

46. Diego

47. J SOusa

48. Vesely

49. Tiafoe

50. Millman

 

[Helena]

Meni nekako ne ide da je Zverev ispred Cicija

edit-na šljaku mislim.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Helena

[wwww]

a za travu izgleda ovako:

 

1. Fed

2. Novak

3. Endi

4. Nadal

5. Cilic

6. Raonic

7. Feli

8. Beretini

9. Gaske

10. Tsonga

11. Isner

12. Kveri

13.Karlovic

14.Dimitrov

15.RBA

16.Dzonson

17.Seppi

18.Coric

19.Pui

20.Kohlschreiber

21.Humbert

22.Zverev

23.Gofan

24.Shapo

25.Simon

26.Hurkacz

27.Kei

28.Wawrinka

29.Mannarino

30.De mInaur

 

[McLeod]

Sto se tice ovoga, verovatno je mislio trenutno. Nisam nikad razmisljao o tome, ali sto se tice neke trenutne liste, ona bi verovatno izgledala ovako:

 

1. Nadal

2. Djokovic

3. Alkaraz (lagano, a moze i na prvo mesto posle ovog turnira, jer pricamo o trenutnoj listi)

4. Cicipas

5. Zverev

6. Rud

7. Svarcman

8. Feliks

9. Medvedev

10. Rune

 

Ja ne vidim Tim i Vavrinka u ovakvoj formi kako mogu da budu u top 10, Fonjini je isto daleko od prajma. Ako gledamo prajm i najbolji rezultat, naravno da Medvedev nije ni u 30 vrlo verovatno od aktivnih igraca, ali ne razumem zasto bismo to gledali.

Edited May 31, 2022 by McLeod

[wwww]

stos je u tome sto je on "strucnost" Medvedeva na sljaci branio njegovim rezultatima iz 2019, sto znaci da uzima u obzir minuli rad. A ako to radis onda ne mozes da izbegnes Federera, Tima i Wawrinku, pa i Fonjinija.

 

Ali ako uzmemo u obzir trenutnu formu:

Sta cemo s Baezom? on je u super formi za sljaku (i ima igru) i definitivno bi oduvao Medvedeva da mu je on bio protivnik u prve 3 runde.

Monf (iako sad trenutno povredjen) takodje.

Gaske ga je pobedio u Zenevi, zna da igra na sljaci (ima pedigre), plus je u formi (jos uvek, ma koliko star bio); da je on bio medju prva 3 protivnika Medvedevu sigurno ne bi statirao u kukuruzu kao Djere/Kecmanovic i onaj povredjeni jadnicak u 1. rundi.

 

Sinner se povredio u mecu s McDonaldom, inace je takodje dobar na sljaci (a i inace), te mora na toj listi biti ispred Medvedeva.

A i McDonald je odlicno igrao u poslednje vreme na sljaci (iako Amer).

Naravno Ramos Vinjolas: da mu je on dosao umesto sto je isao na Alcaraza Medvedev bi izgubio.

Museti takodje (uz svu njegovu eraticnost i nekonstantnost).

Sonego je ponovo usao u sljakastu formu (jos zna da igra na sljaci). I on bi ga dobio. Igrao je 5 setova s Rudom i za malo da i taj mec dobije.

ADF je takodje bolji na sljaci od Medvedeva i ne bi statirao kao Djere i Kecmanovic. Plus bi bio motivisan protiv velikog imena.

Garin je odigrao prethodnih nekoliko sljakastih turnira odlicno, znaci pored toga sto zna da igra na sljaci jos je ponovo i usao u formu.
 

Carballes Baena (izgubio od Sinnera) i Munar (izgubio od Diega) su dosadni kao stenice i pravi sljakasti igraci, trenutno u sljakastoj formi. Ne znam sta bi tu bilo protiv Medvedeva (uz sav njegov igracki kvalitet).

Mali Gaston je dosadan ko stenica, njega Medvedev ne bi tek tako lako izbacio, naprotiv. Uz publiku na negovoj strani verovatno bi to bio kraj za Medvedeva.

Gofan mora na tu listu ispred Medvedeva, cak i u ovoj formi i s njegovom tendencijom da chokira protiv najboljih igraca (ipak mu Medvedev ne bi bio toliki bauk na sljaci).

 

plus oni koji su na ovom RG igrali dobro:

Zapata Miralles je opasno namucio Zvereva (nije sve bilo do bubica u glavi Zvereva), plus onaj Argentinac Cachin (videla sam malo meca protiv Gastona, sasvim dobro je igrao).

Kolar je gadno namucio Tsitsipasa.

Tiafoe je bio odlican u Estorilu, on se ne bi uplasio Medvedeva, a ima snagu i oruzja da ga probije na sljaci.

Zanima me sta bi Medvedev uradio protiv Norria, koji je takodje dosadan ko stenica i u formi je (iako nije specijalista za sljaku).

Nakashima je dobro igrao protiv Zvereva.

 

tako da ima jos igraca koji su ispred Medvedeva cak i u trenutnoj formi i fazi karijere. Evo, sinoc nas je Cilic podsetio da i on ume da igra na sljaci.

[McLeod]

Tako mozemo da napravimo argument za svakoga, on je do Cilica igrao solidno, a onom igrom Cilic bi izbacio i Zvereva i Cicipasa pa ne bismo sad pisali o kravi na ledu Medvedevu.

 

Ne moramo da uzimamo bas karijerne plasmane u obzir za sve koje si pomenula, ali realno niko nije stigao na sljakastim turnirima nikada toliko daleko kao Medvedev, pa ni na RG. Moze Busta da bude tu, ali nije u dobroj formi.

 

Realno gledano, nije to toliko siroko polje da bismo pricali o nekih 10 igraca boljih od njega na sljaci u eri uniformisanih podloga. On je drugi igrac na svetu, sto znaci da je top 10 na svakoj podlozi kada je u formi, pa i na sljaci.

 

Meni 6-10 mesto ima smisla.

[wwww]

problem je u tome sto je Gill na osnovu meceva Medvedeva protiv Djerea i narocito Kecmanovica (koga je sve vreme u svojim video analizama drzao tu u sirem krugu favorita za dobar plasman, iako Kecmanovic nije bas sljakasti igrac, vec ga je Nalbandijan isforsirao da igra na sljaci poslednje 2 sezone da bi naucio kako da gradi poene i bude strpljiv) dolazi do zakljucka da je on u top 6-10.

 

A iz one moje liste mozes bar 3-4 (najmanje) igraca da ubacis na tvoju listu ispred Medvedeva.

 

Jednostavno je precenio Djerea i Kecmanovica i na osnovu tog izveo zakljucak o Medvedevu. I Lajovica bi oduvao, prosto jer je to Lajovic (jos u sadasnjoj formi), sto mu uopste ne bi smelo da podigne sljakasti pedigre.

Medvedev, kao vrhunski igrac, uz dobar zreb moze solidno da se provuce protiv chokera (iako su solidni na sljaci), bukvalno na suvi teniski kvalitet i teniski IQ. Ali to nije dovoljno da bude u top 10 sljakasa sad, u ovom trenutku.

 

[McLeod]

Ma slazem se ja sa tobom u tom pogledu, samo mislim da bez obzira na to sto on jeste verovatno nekonzistentan u samoj svojoj proceni, ne vidim da je blasfemija staviti Medvedeva u top 10 igraca na sljaci, kad je top 2 na betonu.

 

Plus on ima potencijal da bude i top 3 bez problema kad se povuku Nadal i Djokovic.

 

Njemu je najveci problem to sto se ne krece dobro na podlozi i to sto je lenj da takticki prilagodi svoju igru sljaci, a nije da ne moze, on ima i frejm i talenat i filozofija igre se uklapa.

 

Kad je Sarapova koja je dosta slicna po tome bila u prvom delu karijere uspela da na Rolan Garosu kad se sve sabere ima najvece uspehe (zamisli da to nekom kazes tamo negde 2008, kad je na svakom slemu osim RGa imala cini mi se bar 2 SFa i titulu), ne vidim zasto ne bi i on.

 

U ovom trenutku nije ni blizu, ali opet je top 10 poprilicno velika grupa. Bez obzira na trenutnu formu, kvalitet igre na podlozi i tako dalje i tako blize.

 

Od ovih koje nabrajamo, mnogi nemaju ni sad, a neki nece imati nikad SF Mastersa i QF slema na sljaci, sto ima Medvedev u samo jednoj sezoni.

[wwww]

U teoriji, ako Isner moze da napravi neke rezultate na sljaci, zasto ne bi i Medvedev? Ima servis koji ga moze daleko odvesti, ima glavu i IQ. Najveci problem su mu kretanje i ravni udarci.

Verovatno mu su sinoc dosli glave i sporiji (pravi sljakasti) uslovi za igru, a pre neki dan, dok je igrao po danu i van PC mogao je da upotrebi nesto iz svog standardnog betonskog repertoara.

Neka prva "definicija" Medvedeva kao igraca je bila da je on poboljsana verzija Simona (fenomenalna defanziva, ne mozes ga nigde probiti, a mnogo bolji servis). Pa ako je Simon mogao da ima sasvim solidne rezultate na sljaci, zasto Medvedev ne bi mogao da ga prevazidje?

 

Negde sam procitala i analizu njegovih rezultata na sporijem betonu, koji (cini mi se) nisu bili previse impresivni (morala bih da pogledam, ali me sad mrzi). Sto ce reci da je on savrsen igrac za brzi beton  i igru u zatvorenom (gde je poosvajao sve moguce). Ne sumnjam da je dovoljno inteligentan da moze da prilagodi svoju igru i drugim uslovima, ako hoce.

 

[McLeod]

Izner je dobar na "plitkoj" sljaci kao recimo onoj koja se postavlja u Dejvis kupu xD

 

Dovoljno tvrdo, cesto i dvoranski uslovi, dobitna kombinacija za njega 😄

[Milutinov Tata]

Tesko je u danasnje vreme govoriti o nekim spcijalistima za sljaku, svi ovi koje je @wwww pomenula, ne vide zavrsnice Mastersa, a kamoli RG. 2020 je bila skracena sezona sljake, prosle godine je Medvedev bio pozitivan pored Monte Karlo cini mi se pa nije nesto ni igrao, ove godine operacija. 2019. je imao lepe rezultate, mozda ce narednih godina opet biti na tom nivou kada bude mogao normalno da igra sezonu sljake. Za neke vrhunske rezultate morace da popravi kretanje i da prilagodi udarce.

[wwww]

This was Nadal after Novak won Australian Open 2021

 

 

a danas:

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by wwww

[Милица]

 

 

[wwww]

tekst iz svajcarskih novina - januar 2020:

https://www.bluewin.ch/de/sport/tennis/doping-experte-hat-einen-verdacht-nadal-hat-auffaelligkeiten-gezeigt-347323.html

 

 

Quote

 

Doping expert has a suspicion: "Nadal has shown abnormalities"

 

Doping rarely becomes an issue in tennis. However, after two tennis professionals were banned at the beginning of the week, the question arises as to whether more players are cheating. A German doping expert even suspects the world number 1 (tada bio Nadal).

 

 

 

Quote

“Sport 1” asked a doping expert – and received surprising answers. Professor Fritz Sörgel from the Institute for Biomedical and Pharmaceutical Research in Nuremberg even considers tennis to be a sport that is very susceptible to doping practices. It doesn't surprise him that the two players have now been transferred, says Sörgel: "I've been watching what's happening for decades and I've gotten an idea. Tennis is in the top four when it comes to doping."

 

Quote

 

Doping sports: tennis in 4th place?

 

In his list, the professor places tennis right behind the sports known for doping, such as cross-country skiing, athletics and cycling. The reason: the high level of stress that tennis players are exposed to throughout the year. “There is a suspicion that there are anabolic substances to a greater extent in tennis. And the suspicion is entirely justified. The reason is the intensity of the sport. This is not just pure speculation, but the consideration of all connections within and outside of the tournaments », says Sörgel.

 

 

Quote

 

"Permanent suspicion at Nadal"

 

And the professor suspects other top players: at the top of his list is world number 1 (tada bio), Rafael Nadal.

Sörgel: "Nadal has shown some abnormalities. Since I have a permanent suspicion. Regarding regeneration and his overall athletics." Despite many injuries, the "bull from Manacor" was able to reach his top level again and again. "In addition, Nadal also comes from Spain, a country that is not exactly known for following its heroes very closely," says Sörgel.

 

 

Quote

What the doping expert means by this: "Influential athletes have a 'professional environment' around them, as they say, which takes care of the best possible care for the top athletes, from nutrition and intake of what is initially permitted to sophisticated forms of physiotherapy, that's exactly it knows how the body of her protégé works and when the limits of performance are reached, which cannot be exceeded with legal means. There are enough techniques to hide doping that has been administered."

 

 

originalni tekst s nemackog portala:

https://www.sport1.de/news/tennis/atp/2020/01/tennis-doping-experte-fritz-soergel-ueber-rafael-nadal-jarray-and-farah

 

Quote

In the SPORT1 interview, the respected doping expert from the Institute for Biomedical and Pharmaceutical Research in Nuremberg explains why he considers tennis to be a sport that is very susceptible to doping practices. He outlines cover-up measures and says why he has suspicions about Rafael Nadal.

 

Quote

Sörgel: There have been famous cases in the past. Mats Wilander or Martina Hingis, who were caught with cocaine, Wilander was sentenced to a mild three-month ban, a minor offence. Hingis is said to have mixed the drug into the orange juice, after all she was banned for two years. And crystal meth was detected at André Agassi, it was considered a party drug and did not result in a ban.

 

Quote

Sörgel: The fact that none of the big ones has tested positive lately is due to two things. On the one hand, they receive the best possible support and advice, so that no abnormalities can arise. On the other hand, the associations protect their stars. If it never comes out, never becomes public, you can't comment on it, only suspect. That's the unfortunate thing. It's still noticeable, especially for someone like me who's been following the scene for years.

 

Quote

Sörgel: Influential athletes have a "professional environment" around them, as they say, which takes care of the best possible care for the top athletes, from nutrition and intake of what is initially permitted to sophisticated forms of physiotherapy, which knows exactly how the body of their protégé is works and when the limits of performance are reached that cannot be exceeded with legal means. There are enough techniques to conceal doping that has been administered.

 

SPORT1: And that would be?

 

Sörgel: Suppose a substance can only be determined at a value of 1. Then the athlete simply takes five different substances with a value of 0.2. These then add up to 1, with the same effect, but cannot test positive. But you have to master that, but apparently Jarry's advisor doesn't. He mixed at least two compounds that he thought were undetectable. With the Ligandrol, I'm not surprised it went wrong. Chemically, the substance is something completely different from the well-known steroid anabolic steroids and has not been scientifically investigated in comparison to the latter.

 

Quote

Sörgel: "Nadal showed abnormalities"

 

SPORT1: Which great tennis player do you suspect of doping?

 

Sörgel: Rafael Nadal has shown some abnormalities. Since I have a permanent suspicion. Regarding regeneration and his overall athletics. Add to that the fact that he's from Spain, a country not known for following its heroes very closely. Anabolic substances would be the candidates.

 

 

 

[wwww]

inace, sad sam googlala koji su efekti steroida i nasla ova dva clanka:

 

https://www.hss.edu/conditions_steroid-side-effects-how-to-reduce-corticosteroid-side-effects.asp

Steroid Side Effects: How to Reduce Drug Side Effects of Corticosteroids

 

pa ima 2 side effects:

Quote

Osteoporosis

Steroid therapy can cause thinning of the bones (osteopenia and osteoporosis), and increase the risk of bone fractures. At the beginning or before your steroid therapy, many patients will be asked to have a bone density test, especially if the steroid dose is high. If density is low, the bone density study It will be repeated in the future to assess the effectiveness of measures you will be using to prevent bone loss. Preventative strategies are important: a person can lose 10% to 20% bone mass within the first six months of corticosteroid therapy.

 

Quote

Aseptic necrosis

Steroids, particularly at higher doses for long periods of time, can sometimes lead to damage to bones, called aseptic necrosis (also known as osteonecrosis or avascular necrosis). This can happen in a number of joints, but the hip is the most common.

 

i ovaj clanak:

https://nida.nih.gov/publications/research-reports/steroids-other-appearance-performance-enhancing-drugs-apeds/what-are-side-effects-anabolic-steroid-misuse

 

Quote

 

Hormonal system

 

Men

decreased sperm production

enlarged breasts

shrinking of the testicles

male-pattern baldness

testicular cancer

 

Irreversible changes include male-pattern baldness and breast development (gynecomastia) in men.

 

koliko li se Nadal dopinguje kad mu je celu glavu zahvatilo celavljenje (a cela familija ima gustu i bujnu kosu.

 

 

 

[Elias]

Nevezano za ovaj clanak, jel vam je cudno kako je doping skoro pa "nestao" zadnjih nekoliko godina iz vrhunskog sporta. 😳

Edited June 3, 2022 by Elias

[wwww]

 

da sad izigravam one sto proveravaju svaku sitnicu na dokumentu:

ovaj dokument je izdat 29.9.2009. a vazi od 23.9.2009. do 25.9.2009.

da li je to dokument izdat retroaktivno? da se zataska padanje na testu?

 

ovaj dokument je izdat 3.8.2012. a pokriva period od 30.7. do 8.8.2012.  i podrazumeva vise doza u vise dana. Da li je i ovde pao na testu izmedju 30.7. i 3.8. pa mu trebalo pokrice?

 

ovo su mislim izuzeca koja su procurila kad su oni hakeri upali u sistem WADA-e ili koga vec. Pitanje je koliko jos ovakvih TUE je bilo svo ovo vreme i za kje sve supstance (onaj gore lekar rece da se prave kombnacije od nekoliko zabranjenih supstanci koja je svaka ispod nivoa detektovvanaj, ali u zbiru daju efekat).

 

 

takodje, iz cele ove price uopste nije cudo zasto se nije pregledao u USA kad je ono imao "probleme s disanjem" i "polomljeno rebro" na kraju IW vec je pregled obavio tek u Spaniji.

Edited June 3, 2022 by wwww

[wwww]

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/22201173.2011.10872723

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/22201173.2011.10872723?needAccess=true

 

 

Ovde za TUE pise da za coticosteroide moze na dan testiranja da se podnese zahtev za TUE...

 

 

"In-competition agents can be used provided they are not detected when the sportsman competes next".

 

znaci zato ce da propusti Wimbldon...

Edited June 3, 2022 by wwww

[wwww]

https://antidoping.itftennis.com/media/324803/324803.pdf

TENNIS ANTI-DOPING PROGRAMME 2021

PLAYER-BY-PLAYER TESTING SUMMARY

I wonder why only test Nadal TWICE out of competition, esp. in a year he was so often OOC. He couldn't be found? They 'found' Struff 15x out of competition, Millman - 12x.

 

inace, Alcaraz prosle godine nije ni jednom testiran in competition, a 6 puta out of competition. Isto i Rune, samo sto je on profesionalnu karijeru poceo 2020 (Alcaraz 2018), proslu godinu poceo kao #475, igrao fjucerse, posle Santiaga se popeo na #317, pa presao na chelendzere i polako usao u top 200, da bi godinu zavrsio kao #103.

Alcaraz je 2021. poceo kao #146, i igrao regularno ATP tur (19 turnira, ukljucujuci i GSove i 2 chelendzera, i ni jednom nije testiran), zavrsio godinu kao #32.

Edited June 3, 2022 by wwww

[wwww]

 

u tekstu ni nema nista vise konkretno, osim onog sto smo vec procitali na drugim mestima.

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by wwww

[wwww]

 

[Boxy]

Mogao je i Federera da doda u tu listu...

[CheshireCat]

Ja razmišljam nešto. Da Federer nije tako ozbiljno povređen mogao bi bez većih problema da izađe na crtu Čili i Rudu. I uđe u finale, uz dobar (vetar) žreb.

[wwww]

  

20 minutes ago, Boxy said:

Mogao je i Federera da doda u tu listu...

 

Wawrinka, Coric takodje, a ima ih jos.

kod zena takodje mnogo njih, da pocnemo od Ane i JJ, pa na dalje.

Edited June 3, 2022 by wwww

[Boxy]

Sa Cilicevim zrebom i da je 100%, lagano bi mogao da ode do finala.