Williams 2020

[MetalHead]

Meni je 1994. bila prva sezona koju sam istinski pratio... pre toga sam ispratio Mensela 1992. a onda i Prosta 1993. u verovatno tehnoloski najsavrsenijem bolidu ikada. 

 

Latifi, jbg, nije neki super talenat ali imao je neke rezultate u F2 a ono pre bolje da mu se i ne pise/pamti. 

[Radoye]

Ma Latifi je tipican placenik, ne treba trositi reci na njega, ni prvi ni poslednji takav u F1, interesantan samo zbog tatinog racuna u banci. Mali milion takvih je proslo kroz F1 zadnjih 10-15 godina, dok sa druge strane neki pravi talenti nikad nisu dobili sansu. No to je realnost u kojoj zivimo.

Uostalom, auto-sport je svojevremeno i krenuo kao hobi za bogatase, tek ponekad bi tu neko iz sljakarske porodice dobio priliku i to samo ako je za tri koplja bolji od ostalih. Da se od posetka samo talent gledao i da su u F1 sansu dobili svi koji su to talentom a ne novcem zasluzili lista svetskih sampiona bi bila znacajno drugacija nego sto jeste. Da su u F1 zaista najbolji vozaci na svetu onda bi i najgori u F1 (recimo da je to danas Latifi) lagano bio sampion u bilo kojoj drugoj seriji u kojoj bi odlucio da se takmici. A to bas i ne biva tako.

[Maharaja]

Latifi nema praktično ništa veliko iza sebe u ranijim kategorijama, ali nemam ništa protiv da ostane celu, punu, normalnu sezonu. Kad su ga već ubacili zbog tate, daj da vidimo da li išta ume. Plus je zemljak. 😀

 

A ako novci od njegovog tate naprave makar malo bolji Vilijams, i dozvole Raselu da procveta, onda je to dobar posao.

 

 

 

 

[Borko]

Vilijams prodat nekoj americkoj kompaniji, ali ce zadrzati i ime tima i ostati u Grovu.

[lemiwilli]

Morala me obradovati ova vest jer kao visedecenijski navijac Williamsa, tesko je  pratiti tim preoteklih 10 godina. Para nema i tu se sva prica zavrsava.

E sad pod kojim uslovima ce ovaj fond rukovoditi timom, sta se planira i slicno to je tek pitanje. Jer se nisu  svi proslavili ulazuci pare u F1. (mislim prvenstveno na rezultate).

[Dzoni_m]

Jos jedan korak blize grobu.

Prodati INVESTICIONOM fondu F1 EKIPU.

Jos jednom neka neko procita ovo gore i neka mi objasni sta tu ne stima? Fabricke ekipe su excel timovi. Svake godine mere da li ce ostati ili ne u F1. Investicioni fond ce dici sidro posle god dana.


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[Jamesdin]

Tužna vest.

[Radoye]

11 hours ago, Dzoni_m said:

Prodati INVESTICIONOM fondu F1 EKIPU.
 

 

To je k'o onomad Reno u "Lotus" fazi.

[MetalHead]

Dakle to je to... 😕 

 

Do sad smo stajali pored sanduka, a sad smo, ovako poluzivi, zagazili jednom nogom u isti. 

 

U F1 imas fabricke timove proizvodjaca automobila (Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault...), imas timove koji su tu zbog drazi tog sporta, kao sto je to bio Williams, pa i Haas. McLaren je negde izmedju te dve kategorije, draz je tu, ali proizvode i automobile. Zatim imas brendove, Red Bull, Alpha Tauri a ovde treba svrstati i Alfa Romeo pa i Racing Point koji postaje Aston Martin. 

 

Racing Point je mozda put kojim ce poci i Williams samo se bojim da je prekasno posao tim putem. A svakako to nije put sa nekim posebnim happy end-om. 

 

Kao sto rece Dzoni, u pitanju je investicioni fond, kao i kod Force India-e, preuzeo je prakticno biznismen, investitor, Lawrence Stroll i eto dokle su dosli... neka roze kopija Mercedesa i neki rezultati su tu, a onda sledece godine novi identitet. A investitor je, prosto receno neko ko zeli da ulozi pare da bi nakon nekog vremena prodao to u sta je investirao za vise para nego sto je ulozio. Stoll je kupio akcije Aston Martina, postace tamo neko mudo, a svoj F1 tim ce brendirati prilicno interesantnim brendom proizvodjaca automobila iz cijih fondova ce crpiti dodatna sredstva da taj tim zivi. I sta nakon 5 ili 10 godina? Uvaljace se nekom drugom, ili ono sto bi bilo najgore, umrece, izvucice neke pare, neku korist i to je to.

 

 

Quote

This is a complete buy-out. The sale is for Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited (WGPE), which consists of the F1 business (including their impressive heritage car collection and high-end headquarters at Grove) their minority stake in Williams Advanced Engineering, and all other trading assets and liabilities.

 

According to documents released to the Stock Market, the “enterprise value” of the company is “€152 million and the net cash proceeds that have been received by the Company for the shares of WGPE, after repayment of all third party indebtedness and transaction expenses, are €112 million”.
 

Sir Frank, who holds 52% of the shares, has given his “irrevocable support” to the transaction – with the Williams family set to no longer have a shareholding.

 

Neverovatno mi je da je u ovoj akviziciji prodat ceo "vozni park" koji ima Williams F1. 

 

Ako ja kapiram ovo drugo boldovano, to znaci da se vrednost kompanije nakon sto bi se naplatili svi dugovi procenjuje na 112miliona evra. To nema sanse da ukljucuje "vozni park". 

 

Kako god, prodaja tog "voznog parka", koji je muzej ovog sporta a nikako nesto sto je kljucno za dalje funkcionisanje tima, je potpuno nepotrebno. Pa to ce kako vreme prolazi sve vise i vise vredeti.  

 

Ne tako davno, Claire Williams je u Netflix-ovom serijalu imala opasku da ce samo "over my dead-body" tim proci kao Tyrell i biti prodat ili postati B-tim nekog fabrickog tima... ni 2 godine nisu prosle od tada 😞 Ovo sa "zadrzavanjem imena i kulture" i ostale izjave tog tipa su samo corporate bullshit. To svaki investitor kaze kad ulece u neku kompaniju zbog straha zaposlenih sta ce biti sada. Ok, bice Williams, ove godine, mozda i sledecih godinu ili dve dok ne krenu nova pravila i vide gde su, pa se onda odluce za rebranding mozda cak i sa nekim proizvodjacem automobila. 

 

I to vise nije to... to nije Williams ma koliko oni ostavljali njegovo ime. Nije vise family thing. 

 

E jbg. Mozda bude neka rasprodaja starih stvari pa se dokopam necega, to bi bilo lepo (iz moje perspektive, mada, jel, najbolje bi bilo da svega ovoga nije bilo). 

 

p.s. sad se setih - kad su prvi put izasli na berzu, bese tamo neke 2010. ili tako nesto, hteo sam da kupim njihove akcije 🙂 bilo je nesto komplikovano pa nikada nisam. Sad mi je bas krivo. Ne zbog neke zarade, mislim da bih samo izgubio pare od tada, nego eto, zbog tog osecaja da sam i ja bio shareholder. 

 

[lemiwilli]

9 hours ago, MetalHead said:

Dakle to je to... 😕 

 

Do sad smo stajali pored sanduka, a sad smo, ovako poluzivi, zagazili jednom nogom u isti. 

 

U F1 imas fabricke timove proizvodjaca automobila (Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault...), imas timove koji su tu zbog drazi tog sporta, kao sto je to bio Williams, pa i Haas. McLaren je negde izmedju te dve kategorije, draz je tu, ali proizvode i automobile. Zatim imas brendove, Red Bull, Alpha Tauri a ovde treba svrstati i Alfa Romeo pa i Racing Point koji postaje Aston Martin. 

 

Racing Point je mozda put kojim ce poci i Williams samo se bojim da je prekasno posao tim putem. A svakako to nije put sa nekim posebnim happy end-om. 

 

Kao sto rece Dzoni, u pitanju je investicioni fond, kao i kod Force India-e, preuzeo je prakticno biznismen, investitor, Lawrence Stroll i eto dokle su dosli... neka roze kopija Mercedesa i neki rezultati su tu, a onda sledece godine novi identitet. A investitor je, prosto receno neko ko zeli da ulozi pare da bi nakon nekog vremena prodao to u sta je investirao za vise para nego sto je ulozio. Stoll je kupio akcije Aston Martina, postace tamo neko mudo, a svoj F1 tim ce brendirati prilicno interesantnim brendom proizvodjaca automobila iz cijih fondova ce crpiti dodatna sredstva da taj tim zivi. I sta nakon 5 ili 10 godina? Uvaljace se nekom drugom, ili ono sto bi bilo najgore, umrece, izvucice neke pare, neku korist i to je to.

 

 

 

Neverovatno mi je da je u ovoj akviziciji prodat ceo "vozni park" koji ima Williams F1. 

 

Ako ja kapiram ovo drugo boldovano, to znaci da se vrednost kompanije nakon sto bi se naplatili svi dugovi procenjuje na 112miliona evra. To nema sanse da ukljucuje "vozni park". 

 

Kako god, prodaja tog "voznog parka", koji je muzej ovog sporta a nikako nesto sto je kljucno za dalje funkcionisanje tima, je potpuno nepotrebno. Pa to ce kako vreme prolazi sve vise i vise vredeti.  

 

Ne tako davno, Claire Williams je u Netflix-ovom serijalu imala opasku da ce samo "over my dead-body" tim proci kao Tyrell i biti prodat ili postati B-tim nekog fabrickog tima... ni 2 godine nisu prosle od tada 😞 Ovo sa "zadrzavanjem imena i kulture" i ostale izjave tog tipa su samo corporate bullshit. To svaki investitor kaze kad ulece u neku kompaniju zbog straha zaposlenih sta ce biti sada. Ok, bice Williams, ove godine, mozda i sledecih godinu ili dve dok ne krenu nova pravila i vide gde su, pa se onda odluce za rebranding mozda cak i sa nekim proizvodjacem automobila. 

 

I to vise nije to... to nije Williams ma koliko oni ostavljali njegovo ime. Nije vise family thing. 

 

E jbg. Mozda bude neka rasprodaja starih stvari pa se dokopam necega, to bi bilo lepo (iz moje perspektive, mada, jel, najbolje bi bilo da svega ovoga nije bilo). 

 

p.s. sad se setih - kad su prvi put izasli na berzu, bese tamo neke 2010. ili tako nesto, hteo sam da kupim njihove akcije 🙂 bilo je nesto komplikovano pa nikada nisam. Sad mi je bas krivo. Ne zbog neke zarade, mislim da bih samo izgubio pare od tada, nego eto, zbog tog osecaja da sam i ja bio shareholder. 

 

Nazalost verovatno si u pravu. I ja sam hteo da kupim akcije, eto cisto iz navijacke strasti ali je bilo  prekomplikovano barem za mene.

Vreme ce pokazati kud, sta, kako...ili kuda koji mili moji...

[alpiner]

Sigurno je da neće biti rebrandiran ime je jedino što vredi pored kolekcije automobila. 

[MetalHead]

6 hours ago, alpiner said:

Sigurno je da neće biti rebrandiran ime je jedino što vredi pored kolekcije automobila. 

 

Odnosno, uz zadrzavanje imena vredniji ce total asset biti kada ga budu preprodavali... ako ne ugase ekipu do tada... 

[Radoye]

Sta dobiju ako ugase ekipu, samo su bacili ulozeni novac? Ovde je racunica da ce investirati u tim da naprave kratkorocni rezultat (da ga makar odlepe s fenjera) i da ga cim pre za profit uvaljaju nekom ko bi bio zaintrigiran da ima F1 ekipu sa tako slavnim imenom sada pod novim finansijskim uslovima s ogranicenim budzetima. Vise se treba plasiti tog sledeceg vlasnika nego ovih.

[alpiner]

Mešetar Toto još uvek ima 5% vlasništva tima. Nekim čudom ispostavilo se da nije prodao svih 15%.

Edited August 26, 2020 by alpiner

[MetalHead]

On 8/26/2020 at 5:37 PM, Radoye said:

Sta dobiju ako ugase ekipu, samo su bacili ulozeni novac? Ovde je racunica da ce investirati u tim da naprave kratkorocni rezultat (da ga makar odlepe s fenjera) i da ga cim pre za profit uvaljaju nekom ko bi bio zaintrigiran da ima F1 ekipu sa tako slavnim imenom sada pod novim finansijskim uslovima s ogranicenim budzetima. Vise se treba plasiti tog sledeceg vlasnika nego ovih.

 

Nisu bacili novac (cak i da ugase ekipu istog momenta), jer uzece neizmerno blago u vidu kolekcije sportskih automobila kojima cena samo raste. Samo sto je tada period povrata investicije nesto duzi.

 

Ovako, ako investiraju nesto, ne izgube ljude ili dovedu neke jos bolje, ako ih malo i usere sa novim pravilima, uvaljace sam tim za 3-4 godine za priblizno iste ili mozda i vece novce, a kolekcija masina ostaje gratis.  

 

Eh da sam bogat kao sto nisam, kupio bih Williams i svaki dan provodio samo sedeci u drugom bolidu, ni jedan ne bih prodao, ostavio bih to naslednicima ako ne budu gajili istu ljubav ka automoto sportu. 

 

I da, taj "sledeci vlasnik", nadam se da ce ga i biti i da to onda bude neko sa jednakom strascu ka F1, kao sto ga je imala porodica WIlliams... 

Ako ne, jbg, nije vise to to. 

[Radoye]

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/30/who-are-the-mystery-buyers-now-in-charge-at-williams/

 

Quote

 

Crucially, the ownership structure of Dorilton/BCE and the identities of those now behind the takeover of one of the sport’s most successful teams has not been divulged.

The company’s LinkedIn page reveals the wealth fund invests in businesses on behalf of a single family, which our sources suggest is British. Further questions in this regard have consistently been met with stonewalling, although Claire William’s comment that they are “people who understand the sport” points to a previous link with F1.

 

Indeed, one of our sources alluded to previous connections with the Williams family, telling RaceFans that the investors were interested only in Williams, and not any other F1 team which may have been on the market. “A targeted purchase,” he said, adding that there was a historical link to team founder Sir Frank Williams himself.

 

Intriguingly, Dorilton was advised by Eden Rock Group, a London-based investment management company headed by James Matthews, the now-41-year-old 1994 British Formula Renault champion and F3 driver (both with Manor Racing). In 2017 Matthews married Pippa Middleton, sister to the Duchess of Cambridge, making him brother-in-law to Prince William, second in line to the British throne. Various profiles place Matthews in the multi-billionaire bracket.

 

This is not the only motor racing connection. Matthews’s father David, Laird of the 10,000 acre Glen Affric estate in Scotland, is an ex-saloon car racer once married to Anita Taylor. She was a star racer of the sixties and sister to Trevor Taylor, Jim Clark’s F1 team mate at Lotus. Thus, the Matthews and Williams clans most certainly crossed paths, while James would have been on the Williams-Renault radar in 1994.

 

There is a further connection. Apart from Matthews, whose family owns the ultra-luxury Eden Rock Hotel in St Barts (hence the name of the hedge fund) Dorilton availed themselves of the advisory services of Graeme Lowdon, ex-Manor F1 CEO and thus connected with Matthews through the team connection. Lowdon, who has been linked to various start-up teams since the demise of Manor, did not respond to requests for comment.

 

 

Hm mozda ipak nije bas sve tako crno kao sto na prvi pogled deluje...

[MetalHead]

Sta ti ovde deluje svetlije od crnog ili barem tamno sivog? 🙂 

 

Bivsi sampion Britanske Formule Renault (u to vreme to mu dodje nesto kao 4. liga ako i to...) i sef verovatno najlosije ekipe u modernoj istoriji F1 (toliko se trudili i nista).

 

Ovo je tek nesto manje crno nego da se opet pojavio StefanGP (Zoran Stefanovic) i da je on iza svega ovoga 😄 

[Radoye]

Manor uopste nije naivno ime u auto-sportu i stavljati ih u istu recenicu sa sanerom poput Stefanovica je najblaze receno bezobrazluk. 20 godina su bili jedna od najuspesnijih ekipa u nizim serijama pre nego sto su usli u F1, i to pod laznim Mozlijevim obecanjem da ce budzeti biti ograniceni na 40 miliona funti po sezoni. Posto jel'da budzeti nisu ograniceni, Manor se takmicio s tim s cim je raspolagao (sto je samo mali delic budzeta vodecih ekipa) i bio je najbolji od cetiri nova tima (od kojih se onaj najizvikaniji nikad nije ni pojavio na stazi). S obzirom na okolnosti bolje nisu ni mogli, na kraju ih je ta cela avantura i bankrotirala.

 

A moras priznati da je scenario pod kojim britanska familija usko povezana sa Vilijamsovima ciljano investira u tim i angazuje ozbiljne likove iz auto-sporta da vode ekipu ipak bolje zvuci od "bezimeni USA investicioni fond preuzima random F1 ekipu u zelji da na brzinu obrne lovu".

Uostalom, ni Ser Frenk nije imao neku bogznakakvu vozacku karijeru iza sebe pa vidi kakvu je istoriju napravio kao vodja tima - jedan od najvecih ikada.

 

[MetalHead]

Nisam ja stavio nikakvu jednakost izmedju Stefanovica i ovih pomenutih ljudi, kazem da je to sigurno bolja opcija od "srpskog lesinara" (kako su prozvali Stefanovica).

 

Ne znam koji je bolji scenario - videcemo narednih godina na sta ce ovo izaci. Kapiram ja da je ovo "targetirana kupovina" a ne tek tako, ali se pribojavam da je to iz razloga sto Willams ima taj asset value koji ni jedan drugi tim na grid-u nema, osim Ferrari-a i McLaren-a. A to je taj vozni park. I ko ce to bolje da prepozna nego neko ko je blizak sportu a u dusi biznismen. 

 

Vise bih voleo da sa ovom kupovinom ima neke veze Eklston nego Manor... mozda gresim. 

[Radoye]

Jos spekulacija o novim gazdama Vilijamsa:

 

https://www.joeblogsf1.com/joesaward/id/00800

Quote

 

The talk all weekend was of Williams and who the new owner might be and in this respect we were not greatly helped by Claire Williams, who gave scant details except to say that it was: a company called Dorilton; not Bernie; and good people. The used of the BCE Ltd name was an odd one – and even Bernie wanted to know who was using his initials – but one presumes that the moniker was chosen as a vertical digit to him, as he was by all accounts trying to help the Mazepin Family acquire the team, in competition to the winning bidder.

 

I reached the conclusion that identifying Dorilton is probably not that important because if they were really taking the team over they would not require the use of “an investment vehicle” and the best thing would be to discover who was behind BCE Ltd, as this was obviously the key company. I traced several BCE Ltds, the most likely one being registered in the British Virgin Islands, where taxation is looked upon in a rather relaxed Caribbean kind of way.

 

The other thing that intrigues me is that the buyer seems to have paid far too much for the team, given the debts involved. Oddly, I was discussing Williams the day before the announcement with a financial type who understands these things. His conclusion was that it could not be sold and would end up in the hands of the creditors (a la Sauber). I talked again after the sale and he was perplexed. This was a deal that did not make sense from an investment point of view - unless there were very specific goals that made it worthwhile. Yes, there was a new Concorde Agreement, but while that is better than previous deals, it is still not entirely generous to the smaller teams. With lowered costs and increased overall revenues the goal for F1 was to provide most of the teams with enough money to reach the budget cap, but post-Covid-19 that is not going to be easy.

 

Thus the thinking was that it was either someone doing someone else a favour; or that the buyer had a kid in a need of an F1 seat…

 

However, there is some logic in trying to develop the Williams brand. It is a strong brand with its own peculiar brand values. It is strong on integrity and fairness, very British, lion-hearted and passionate about racing. One of the team’s greatest strengths was that Frank Williams and Patrick Head were only interested in going racing and did not have the ambition to do what McLaren, for example, has done extending the brand in new areas. Thus, even allowing for the debt, Williams has valuable potential, although it will require different leadership to firstly rebuild the team, and then find ways to exploit the brand. But as the brand is essentially British, it really needs someone British to develop it properly. An American Williams makes no real sense to me…

 

The problem is that since Williams split with BMW, 15 years ago, it has ceased to be a manufacturer team and has been a team that has had to pay for its engines. And that makes F1 much harder.

 

My conclusion in all this, after much consideration, was that Dorilton may be run a British person but that’s not really enough and that the deal looks more like some kind of mates deal with Dorilton coming up with the cash required to help BCE Ltd get hold of the team. I reckon that this is a deal that will allow whoever is running the team to gradually pay back Dorilton and gain equity as the team moves forward.

 

The name that I find interesting is former racing driver James Matthews who my sources say is the person who I should be looking at. Matthews is best known for being married to Pippa Middleton, the younger sister of Catherine, the Duchess of Cambridge, Prince William’s wife. So he’s British and part of The Establishment. He owns his own asset management and investment company called Eden Rock Capital, which is run by managing-director Edward Horner. If the name sounds familiar that is because it is Christian’s cousin.

 

Matthews has been around racing all his life and, to some extent, motorsport – and F1 - is unfinished business for him.

 

James is the son of David Matthews, a successful car dealer who raced Fords in the British Saloon Car Championships in the early 1970s, until he had a very hefty accident which meant he returned to business. He set up the original Eden Rock business, which is a very flashy resort on the island of Saint Barths in the West Indies, where the rich and famous go on their holidays. They pay a lot for the privilege. David is now sufficiently wealthy to also own a 10,000-acre estate in Scotland and when James set up his hedge fund he decdied to use the Eden Rock name. Before that James was a racing driver, and a rather good one. He was so good in fact that he dominated the British and European Formula Renault championships in 1994 before moving to Formula 3, where he failed to shine and finally decided that a career in finance was a better idea. He walked away from the sport and never really knew what he might have achieved if he had kept going.

 

There is another link with the F1 world that is also worth considering. James raced for John Booth’s Manor Motorsport in Formula Renault with David investing in the team and being a director from 1993 to 1995. He is also believed to have helped fund the team’s move to British Formula 3 a few years later that led to titles in 1999 for Marc Hynes (now Lewis Hamilton’s right hand man) and Antonio Pizzonia in 2000. The team also won the British Formula Renault title with Hamilton in 2003 and ran him on the Formula 3 Euroseries as well.

 

The historic link with Manor is interesting but there is nothing as yet to suggest that there is a link between Matthews and Manor. John Booth is now 65 and may not be that interested in further F1 adventures, but his business partner Graeme Lowdon has been working quietly in recent years to get a new F1 venture up and running.

 

We will see how it all works out…

 

 

[MetalHead]

Cudi me da kazu da je tim placen previse, a ne znamo tacno ni koliko je placen vec imamo procenu na osnovu finansijskog stanja. To stanje ko zna kako racuna tu kolekciju trkackih automobila (koju toliko pominjem) a valjda je i to uslo u prodaju (tako je barem receno) ili mozda i nije?

 

I bas ovo prikrivanje svega, pravih novih vlasnika i ko stoji iza kupovine mi jos manje poverenja uliva... 

[Hertzog]

Eno Vettel kupio Menselov sampionski bolid iz 1992. je li to vec krenula rasprodaja dobara

[Hertzog]

Ode i Claire... Ocekivano ali opet tuzno sto jedna takva porodica odlazi iz F1

[Radoye]

Jbg smena garde - Briatore (doduse taj se sam upuc'o u nogu), Montecemolo, Denis, sada i Vilijamsovi kao poslednji predstavnici "starog kova" a umesto njih sad imamo Totoa, Hornera i njima slicne.

[alberto.ascari]

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