Tomiprunet Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 Pogledao sam video, LDL su oni predstavili kao jedan skup masti i proteina (vitamina ) gde se na omotacu nalazi jedan molekul holesterola i jos jedan se nalazi u skupu. taj skup hrani celiju, koja ide do organa. Organ uzima onoliko koliko je njemu dovoljno, a sve ostalo se vraca u jetru kao HDL. Oni su to jos uprostili i LDL opisali kao ambulantna kolja koja idu od bolnice do pacijenta ( jer je to kao nesto lose jer se ne zna kako je stanje pacijenta ), a HDL su opisali kao ambulantna kola koja se vracaju od pacijenta do bolnice ( kao dobro jer se vracaju bez pacijenta nazad u bolnicu ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasa965 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 LDL bi bio transportno preduzeće koje prenosi energiju. A HDL bi bio komunalno koje čisti ostatke .Ali ovo je krajnje uprošćeno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, slavisa said: Pogledao sam video, LDL su oni predstavili kao jedan skup masti i proteina (vitamina ) gde se na omotacu nalazi jedan molekul holesterola i jos jedan se nalazi u skupu. taj skup hrani celiju, koja ide do organa. Organ uzima onoliko koliko je njemu dovoljno, a sve ostalo se vraca u jetru kao HDL. Oni su to jos uprostili i LDL opisali kao ambulantna kolja koja idu od bolnice do pacijenta ( jer je to kao nesto lose jer se ne zna kako je stanje pacijenta ), a HDL su opisali kao ambulantna kola koja se vracaju od pacijenta do bolnice ( kao dobro jer se vracaju bez pacijenta nazad u bolnicu ) Ne dovodi se ovde u pitanje fiziološka uloga LDL, ona je važna i nesporna, pitanje je šta se dešava kad ga ima u višku. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, slavisa said: Da se svasta nauciti iz ove vase diskusije. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomiprunet Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Honey Badger said: Lakse mi je ovako nauciti, 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, slavisa said: Lakse mi je ovako nauciti, 🙂 Sta si naucio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amigo Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 KOliko mi je poznato Eddard je doktor, @sasa965 koje su tvoje kvalifikacije Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasa965 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Amigo said: koje su tvoje kvalifikacije A bitno je? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amigo Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 minute ago, sasa965 said: A bitno je? Normalno da je bitno, moje izvor informacija je razgovor sa speciliastima, jer moja stara ima poveci plak, pa su joj preporucili da potpuno izbaci zumanca i meso minimalno, samo piletina i riba. Osim toga slusam redovno https://www.siriusxm.ca/channels/doctor-radio/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasa965 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Vi ste poslušali i gospođi se plak smanjio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Amigo, nije bitno, to je Argumentum ad auctoritate, pogotovo što moja specijalnost malo veze ima sa temom, a i to što sam učio bilo je davno (iako se trudim da ostanem u toku). Ovde razmenjujemo mišljenja, pa ko hoće kome da veruje, stvari koje sam ja izneo su lako proverljive. Doduše, neki i samo postavljaju pitanja kao inspektori... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Amigo said: Normalno da je bitno Nije bitno jer je nedokazivo. Meni da pravi doktor ovakve stvari naprica, obavezno bih trazio second opinion. Edited October 12, 2019 by Honey Badger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Just now, Honey Badger said: Meni da pravi doktor ovakve stvari naprica, obavezno bih trzio second opinion. Šta ti se konkretno ne sviđa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasa965 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Odakle su izvori energije ? Ako su izbacili jaja i proteine ostaje da je energija iz šećera. Taj eksperiment se radi od šezdesetih i rezultat je enormni porast obolelih od dijabeta i CV bolesti. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Eddard said: Šta ti se konkretno ne sviđa? Isljednicki one lajneri i bezrazlozno detaljisanje. Ne mislim na tvoje ucesce. Ti si na pocetku rekao da holesterol nije tvoj fah i da trebas da se podsjetis, sto si i uradio. Opet, sto sam i uspio da iskljuvim, to je iz tvojih postova. Edited October 12, 2019 by Honey Badger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amigo Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, sasa965 said: Vi ste poslušali i gospođi se plak smanjio? Naravno da je poslusala, ona je stara zena i vec dvije godine su stvari pod kontrolom, inace ko zna sta bilo. 1 minute ago, sasa965 said: Odakle su izvori energije ? Ako su izbacili jaja i proteine ostaje da je energija iz šećera. Taj eksperiment se radi od šezdesetih i rezultat je enormni porast obolelih od dijabeta i CV bolesti. Nije hrana samo jaja i meso, to znamo svi, eto Novak Djokovic, jes da je izgubio juce, ali nije da nema energije sa svojom ishranom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amigo Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Evo i konkretno pitanje, zasto je lose uzimati statine, ako neko ima povisen nivo holesterola u krvi? Sta raditi, ignorisati savjete doktora i jesti bijeli luk 🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Amigo said: Evo i konkretno pitanje, zasto je lose uzimati statine, ako neko ima povisen nivo holesterola u krvi? Sta raditi, ignorisati savjete doktora i jesti bijeli luk 🤪 Samo soda bikarbona i jabukovo sirce, kazu, skida holesterol samo tako. I cayene chili ali samo cayene, ni jedna druga sorta ne valja. I kad takav pandrkne, onda kazu, steta, mlad covjek bio. Trebao je slusati doktore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasa965 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Amigo said: Evo i konkretno pitanje, zasto je lose uzimati statine, ako neko ima povisen nivo holesterola u krvi? Sta raditi, ignorisati savjete doktora i jesti bijeli luk Nije loše , naprotiv u situacijama kad je povećan broj partikula LDL a broj se uglavnom meri preko proxy vrednosti Apo-B apsolutno je opravdana upotreba statina. Edited October 12, 2019 by sasa965 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Amigo said: Evo i konkretno pitanje, zasto je lose uzimati statine, ako neko ima povisen nivo holesterola u krvi? Sta raditi, ignorisati savjete doktora i jesti bijeli luk 🤪 Ko kaže da je loše? Evo par citata iz nekoliko članaka iz prethodnih 5 godina: Quote In this meta-regression analysis, the use of statin and nonstatin therapies that act via upregulation of LDL receptor expression to reduce LDL-C were associated with similar RRs of major vascular events per change in LDL-C. Lower achieved LDL-C levels were associated with lower rates of major coronary events. Quote In these meta-analyses and meta-regressions, more intensive compared with less intensive LDL-C lowering was associated with a greater reduction in risk of total and cardiovascular mortality in trials of patients with higher baseline LDL-C levels. This association was not present when baseline LDL-C level was less than 100 mg/dL, suggesting that the greatest benefit from LDL-C-lowering therapy may occur for patients with higher baseline LDL-C levels. Quote Genetic and clinical evidence supports the concept that reduction in LDL-C levels below current recommended targets may provide additional clinical benefit to patients without adversely impacting patient safety. Statin add-on therapies, such as ezetimibe and the recently approved proprotein convertase subtilisin/kexin type 9 (PCSK9) inhibitors alirocumab and evolocumab, allow patients to achieve very low LDL-C levels and are likely to impact on future treatment paradigms. Quote All statins showed statistically significant risk reduction of CVD and all-cause mortality in primary prevention populations while increasing the risk for some harm risks. However, the benefit-harm profile differed by statin type. A quantitative assessment of the benefit-harm balance is thus needed since meta-analyses alone are insufficient to inform whether statins provide net benefit. Edited October 12, 2019 by Eddard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasa965 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I što je nivo LDL viši lek je efikasniji. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronostime Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Alo, hecimi, izvin`te sto vam prekidam kongres - kako stoje stvari sa slaninom i cvarcima sto se tice holesterola? Cisto pitam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomiprunet Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 Alo, hecimi, izvin`te sto vam prekidam kongres - kako stoje stvari sa slaninom i cvarcima sto se tice holesterola? Cisto pitam? Može slanina i čvarci. Nisu štetni.Šta u vezi miopatije? Jest da nije neki izvor ali naišao sam i na neke strane izvore http://ordinacija.vecernji.hr/zdravlje/ohr-savjetnik/miopatija-uzrokovana-statinima/Sent from my Redmi K20 Pro using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddard Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 2 hours ago, slavisa said: Može slanina i čvarci. Nisu štetni. Pa ne znam baš, nismo se još složili da li su zasićene masti štetne, što je trenutni konsenzus. A slanina i čvarci su bogati njima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasa965 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Kronostime said: kako stoje stvari sa slaninom i cvarcima sto se tice holesterola? Cisto pitam? Vrednosti LDL će biti povećane ,(masa koja se meri u mili molima ) ali broj LDL će biti manji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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